January 15, 2022 - 8:36am
Once again, what size Dutch oven for my sourdough?
This question must have been asked a great number of times as I've seen by searching the Forum, but please allow me to ask it once more.
I usually bake batards of up to 500g (18oz) flour. What size DO would be suitable? I read that the space inside a DO is important to contain sufficient steam created from baking the dough and that too small a size DO would be detrimental to the loaf rising during baking.
Do you prefer a cast iron DO or an enameled one? Can an enameled DO be preheated up to say 500° F (260° C)? I read that preheating an enameled empty DO may damage it. On the other hand a CI DO needs some maintenance from time to time.
I would be most grateful for your opinion on this matter.
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The challenger cast iron vessel seems to be very popular in the "elite" sourdough baking community. Not sure if anyone needs this expensive pan but it is certainly a great option to have. I have tried baking with cast iron and enameled steel pans (Graniteware?), and I seem to like a steel pan better, it is much lighter with a very efficient heat transfer. Good luck with your search.
The Challenger Bread Pan | Challenger Breadware
I like baking as a hobby and based on what I read about the Challenger it's the one to have. However, I find its cost prohibitive.
Regular DO's are not ideal for baking large batards which can easily get to 14-16" at 500 g. of flour scale. You need to find something oblong in shape. One option is the aforementioned Challenger pan, but at 12" it's a bit short to my taste, and $300 is a serious chunk of change. Another option is cast iron roasters that can be found for under $100 at Amazon. Yet another option is enameled turkey roasters, light, thin and cheap.
As to enameled/non-enameled cast iron, in my experience there's little difference. Preheating is a quality issue. $30 DO I picked up at Target started shedding enamel after a few dozen bakes. I am sure my Le Creuset would survive daily bakes for a century, but I have no interest in testing that theory even for the much shorter period available to me.
I saw one in a shop today and it was indeed quite cheap. I was tempted to buy it, but I wasn't sure if it's an optimal choice.
I agree with Ming that lighter is a better way to go (at least for me). The CI DOs are quite heavy, especially once you get a good sized loaf in there, and can rust (again, speaking from personal experience). I have used an enameled cast iron DO and a plain CI DO but then tried several of the clay bakers (Roemertopfs or Breadtopia's) and haven't looked back.
As far as size, I have found that the batard shaped clay baker at Breadtopia works great for a 500g flour/750-1000g loaf (total weight with other ingredients accounted for). I think if you make sure you have around 3.5 qt+ capacity, you should be fine. (Not sure what country you are in so the Breadtopia suggestion might not make sense for you.)
Regarding the pre-heating question on the CI DOs, I never had any issues with pre-heating them empty. One had a knob and the other had a CI handle formed as part of the lid. The enameled one did discolor a bit on the inside of the lid but it was not a big deal.
I also have a pretty large glass casserole dish that has a more shallow bottom and rounded lid, which I've used successfully. It isn't by any means light but it is kind of cool to bake with (because you can watch the oven spring) and isn't as heavy as CI would be at the same size. Pretty easy maintenance on this as well...just pops into the dishwasher if necessary.
I've read other posters that swear by the Graniteware enamel DOs who say they keep the steam and heat in just as well as other options. I have always wanted to try them too because of the lighter weight, but I'm maxed out on storage space at the moment.
You do want to find something large enough to accommodate your bakes, as the steam and heat retention are the most important for spring, crust and bake--you are correct that some space around the dough is essential. There are many different types to choose from and lots of different opinions on what is 'best', but I hope the size and pre-heat info ^^ is helpful. Happy baking!!!
The Breadtopia website has an impressive number of baking tools. I'll have a closer look at your suggestion.
I have baked up to 500 g flour batards in my Le Creuset enameled cast iron oval dutch oven, it is the 6.3L size. For almost three years I used it to bake all my hearth loaves and I always preheat my oven to 500°F with the dutch oven in the oven. I can tell you that they say not to do this, but my dutch oven looks the same as when it was new, at least after I wash it LOL. On the other hand, I have been doing open steam baking lately and not bothering to use my dutch oven for heart loaves. The reason for this is that I have found consistently that the crust is thinner when baked without a dutch oven. This makes sense to me as the oven walls and their radiant heat are much further away from the crust than the walls of the dutch oven and thus you get a thinner crust. In some ways this is a bit more involved because you have to steam your oven, which isn’t that hard and you have to have either a baking stone or steel. However, to me it has been worth setting up for steam baking to have a thinner crust.
Benny
Maybe I'll find an extra use for my pizza stone!
Benny, your post has got me thinking about a modified open steaming method (which I have read about before), where the loaf is placed on a pre-heated baking stone but covered for only the first 10 minutes, to get the benefit of the steam without having to have extra equipment in the oven. Then, in theory, a thinner crust than a traditional DO bake should result because the lid is coming off a full 15 minutes earlier than most traditional DO bakes (for the first stage). I'm curious if you have ever given this a try before. I've used my baking stone for open bakes before, and tried spraying water or using a pan with added ice below the stone, but I've never been successful in getting the same oven spring that I get in a DO and I tend to get a thicker, wider base to the loaf than in the DO. Wondering if using a roaster lid over the loaf (that is directly on the stone) for only 10 minutes might be a good compromise? Although I don't think this is a popular a method as yours or the traditional DO method I'd be curious to hear thoughts or anyone else's on this subject.
Leigh I hadn’t heard of that method before. My only concern about it is whether or not 10 minutes of steam is enough. From doing time lapse videos of my hearth loaf bakes recently I found that the bloom continued beyond the standard 20 mins that I used to do steam for either via the dutch oven with lid or via open steaming. This led me to lengthen my steam baking to 25 mins and I’ve been happy with the results so far.
Using a cover for the baking bread that has a lower heat capacity than cast iron is a very interesting idea and I’ve seen some folks have excellent results with using a simple light steel mixing bowl. So using a light metal roasting lid or even the base inverted whichever is larger could work well if it can make good enough contact with the baking steel to retain the steam. The lower heat capacity of the metal, although still close to the dough, should help reduce the thickness of the crust and allow you to keep it on for the full time of steaming. It is worth a try if you own something already. Preferably something that isn’t shiny though as I recall someone using a tray that was shiny and having problems getting the crust to brown. If you try this I’d love to hear back from you about whether it is successful.
Attached pic is my "Dutch oven" that I have been using to bake my baguettes. I have probably tried everything under sun in terms of baking equipment and techniques, and I think I am getting close to stop trying anything else, but this is just me, as it might work differently for different bakers.
Interesting...so this is your enamelware set up, with the large roaster? This is definitely longer and wider than any DOs I have at the moment. Do you use the 'typical' times for lid on/lid off and same 'typical' DO methods? This looks like a nice solution for a couple of baguettes, only limited in length by a bit. I may need to pull the trigger on that Graniteware roaster I have in my wish list after all ;-)
Those look like great baguettes by the way!
Yes, Leigh, I am using it just like a cast iron Dutch oven with lid. With these baguettes, it was 12 min lid on and then 10 min lid off. My oven is very hot so I don't need to bake very long like some others do. I do spray water on the top of the dough before and after I score them but I do not spray water nor put ice cubes in the pan. I find that too much water is not a good thing so whatever water in the dough is all that is needed, of course that only works for me, as others might be different. Thanks.
I do have a longer cast-iron roaster as shown next to my enameled steel roaster. It is a monster, a boat anchor, very intimidating to use as a newbie.
I went with a 6qt dutch oven, and I sort of regret it. It is rated at 500°F, but I notice every time I pre heat it, it comes out more rough. The enamel inside is cracking and I've only had it a month. I did a little internet research and found that it is not recommended to preheat it. I guess this is the proof. Perhaps a Le Creuset would hold up better.
If money was not an issue, I would probably get the Challenger pan. Or the two piece Lodge one. I just thought I could use a dutch oven for other things.
If cost is not an issue, then Staub is preferable to Le Creuset. The white enamel interiors of Le Creuset pans hold up fine to 260 C plus heating, but will quickly darken in colour. Staub interiors are black and their lids are also more tight-fitting.
Regular cast iron actually doesn't need much maintenance. I hardly ever pay mine any attention and it's fine.
Staub/Le Creuset dutch ovens are investment pieces. If you're going to cook with them all the time, then it's worth it. If you're only looking for something for baking bread, it's probably not the best value.
If I only used it for bread I wouldn’t bother with the expensive le creuset or staub but i use it for many other cooking needs. I don’t agree however about the beige enamel discoloring over time. My le creuset I’ve had for almost six years. It was used at least weekly for bread for about three years. Each used it was preheated empty at 500°F for an hour as the oven heated up. With about five minutes of elbow grease using a soft scrub pad, never using anything metal in the Dutch oven, and baking soda this is how my Dutch oven looks today.
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There is no crazing in the enamel nor any discoloration. I have damaged a cheap enamel cast iron pot in the past because I used metal utensils inside it and learned my lesson before buying this one.
Wow, your dutch oven is absolutely beautiful. Now I'm wondering what I've done incorrectly...There's nothing wrong with it other than the appearance. The enamel is intact and it's perfectly functional. Just not aesthetically pleasing.
Wow that is a big difference in appearance. How have you been cleaning it? As I said, I just use baking soda and a non metal abrasive pad and elbow grease every few months. I never let it get too bad before I clean it. I figure it was a big investment so wanted to try to keep it looking good.
One other thing I prefer about the light enamel compared with the dark of the Staub is when you’re browning meat in the dutch oven. You can see the degree of browning because of the contrast in the colour of the enamel vs. the dark enamel of the Staub. That is likely a minor thing and ultimately both are excellent products and with the Staub you save some money for sure.
I clean with soap and hot water. I've never scrubbed it with or without baking soda since I always thought the discolouration was of the enamel itself and not a stain. It stayed mostly cream/beige through many years of cooking until I preheated it to 250 C for bread baking. Then over 3-4 bakes it became the way you see it in the picture. Perhaps scrubbing is worth a try now that I know it's possible to keep it pretty!
I hope it works for you, it is definitely worth a try. Any stain I’ve had has always come out no matter how bad they looked. I’m sure you have baking soda and a non metal scrub pad. I was able to scrub the stains off even with my torn shoulder this morning, I had to take more breaks but was still able to do so. Good luck.