December 30, 2021 - 10:46pm
Sourdough starter is bubbling but not rising !!!!!
I am using dry sourdough starter it is bubbling from the begging but not rising, and after 2 days no bubbles no activities
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Sourdough starter is bubbling but not rising !!!!!
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more detail needed please
temperatures? age? how thin is it? any additional ingredients? How much?
aromas?
I take it that being a dry starter, water was added to it. Is it purchased or a DIY "back up" starter? What amounts are we talking about? I normally add water to cover and let it stand to hydrate completely, then add about the same amount of fresh flour as the dried starter. Maybe a tad more water to make a paste. Cover. Set in a warnish spot and stir occasionally and give it a few days to rise.
No discarding. Just add another spoonful of flour and water. Aim for heavy batter consistency or soft dough. Much like starting a new starter only it tends to take less days as the dried starter is more acidic than starting from scratch.
Hello Mini, this is freshly dries from over 200 years old starter(my grandmother's starter), I added 3x the amount of mixed flour (RYE, ALL WHEAT and BREAD FLOUR) to the Sourdough powder, and it is in the loose side, I am in Montreal and my kitchen temp is normally cold at night 70F and during the day 79F. How long it takes you to revive to peak point?
it's going through the steps when making a starter from scratch. In other words you are making instead of reviving a starter. I see the appeal of keeping a 200 year old starter going but in reality if it stalls or goes dormant and you take the same time to revive it as making a new one then you're making a new one. Having a bit of the 200 year old starter in it might, or might not, impart something from the original starter but using it will keep the magic alive.
So let me confirm... you have rehydrated the dried starter and fed it. It bubbled up at first but upon feeding again it went completely quiet? Or is it still bubbling but not rising?
Completely quiet, I have it fresh and lively doubles in less than 4 hours, but I decided to dehydrate it and see if I can revive it, I am terrified that one day it dies on me
Completely quiet
Has had a feed and it's gone completely quiet then all you do is skip a feed or two, or even three, keep warm and stir it once or twice a day. When it begins to show signs of bubbling then begin feeding again.
Thank you for the tip, I read about the stirring, it makes sense I will let you know
Bit clearer. It hasn't been dried for a years. This is an experiment to dry it then revive it to see if drying is a good way to store it in case anything goes wrong.
See my answer above. Feed according to the rhythm of your starter. If there's activity then feed. If not then skip a feed.
Did you use heat to dehydrate it or just leave it out?
I leave it out on the top shelf, it takes a day or two to dry out
Just FYI no starter is 200 yrs old in reality.
Every individual yeast will replicate about 26 times before then dying. They replicate about every 90 minutes so if they were at room temperature feeding on flour they would live approx. 26*90/60 = 39 hours then expire.
These notions of ancient yeasts having been "kept going" for 100s of years are simply fanciful myths
There is absolutely nothing in anyone's sourdough starters that is older than a few days or months (if they kept it in the fridge etc) although you can dry yeast and store in a freezer for maybe 5 years at best.
Really all that can be claimed, rather fancifully imo, is that yeasts have some sort of nobility on the basis of their lineage and origin. Personally I think it somewhat disingenuous of companies to sell yeasts on the basis of being "100s years old" as some do.
So although it's possible for us to keep a "Starter" going for many years with constant refreshing, the fact is that everything in that mix is pretty young because everything dies off pretty quickly and becomes food for newly created yeasts.
Thank you so much for the explination, I didn't know that, I have been carring arround this thing with me from one country to another as my grandmother and my mother, loads off but if you are wrong I will not forgive you.. lol
A human body almost completely replaces itself with new cells every 7-10 years. Does that mean we are a different person? Your body makes replica cells of itself just like a starter does. Cells, yeast, bacteria don't have a long lifespan and just because a cell in you dies but replaces itself doesn't make you a new person. So to a starter in which the yeasts and bacteria die but replace themselves with replicas. If a starter was completely new every so many days then you'd be making a new one from scratch every so many days but this doesn't happen. Your body would have to make a new immune system every few years but that doesn't happen. I think if you have nurtured a starter for years, it has never died on you, been healthy and consistent for all these years then you can say your starter is so old. Should your starter ever stop working and you spend the same amount of time reviving it as making a new one then there's an argument for it being a new starter. But when we say a starter is so old we're talking about the starter [the person in the analogy] not individual yeasts and bacteria. The starter as whole entity. Coral reefs can be another comparison.
Although it is an interesting idea being a whole new person every 7-10 years. Can bring to light some serious questions? You might not be still married to your spouse being a new person. Or liable for that previous person. All debts should not be on you...etc.
Human cells only make up 43% of your body! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43674270 We aren't that different to starters after all.
This makes sense, and if I would be a brand new person in 7 to 10 years I wouldn't need to buys so much creams for my wrinkles. Thank you, you saved my very old starter, and she is thanking you too :)
Our bodies regenerate but each time it does it makes an older version of ourselves. In other words it replicates older cells. Next level science would be to make our bodies make younger cells.
Not for your starter of course :)
I see no reason why we can't think of our starters being so old. We think of many things this way.
It's an interesting comparison,
I don't think starter and people have the same boundaries though. I view starter (and people) as systems of influences.
A starter is two desirable inhabitants (yeast, lactobacillus) living in an environment of food and water. Every feeding brings in competing yeasts and bacteria that challenge the environment. Water includes pollutants, agents like chlorine that may kill, and minerals.
Comparing to people, it would be more of a neighbourhood of two kinds of interacting people within a zone in which other kinds of people are streaming through on a regular basis who bring pollutants and variations with them.
Neighbourhoods can certainly change radically depending on those kinds of influences. Or, if they are isolated, remain quite insular and resistant to change.
I am certainly a different person based on my environment (Ottawa vs London vs Montreal vs Toronto) and what those systems offer me and take from me. I am currently within an interesting neighbourhood that has quite a long, violent past and yet has experienced massive gentrification and shifts in food stores and offerings. The kinds of people have also shifted quite noticeably, Fewer shootings outside the apartment in the last few years. :)
I love the comparisson, so kill or not to kill, this is the question, I am joking I will keep my old Starter, I like it and she likes me :)
Any signs of bubbling yet? If not, just give it a good stir and skip another feed.
You're a tenacious one, Abe. Some of us aren't arguing, we're just riffing :)
Keep it civil
Abe, you've misinterpreted. There is a difference between debate and riffing, which is an improvisational experience where people join in and share in an ongoing musical experience to take it in different directions.
I was being friendly and acknowledging your tenacity while highlighting my difference in approach.
There is nothing uncivil about that.
Yes, there are bubbles and little light I am stirring and wishing for the best :)
Perhaps this evening you can give it a small feed. Try 2:1:1. Enough to keep it happy with some fresh food but not too much you're diluting all the good stuff.
For example...
I never hear before that if I want to revive a starter to feed it 2:1:1, I always saw that you have to feed it more the double 1:5:5 or 1:4:4, but half, what is the theory behind that?
to your starter's needs. if your starter was bubbling up, tripling and very active within 12 hours then i'd say give it a bigger feed of 1:5:5. Just like when your starter was quiet you skipped a feed or two now we do the same thing when it comes to feeding. Allowing the starter to dictate how much and how often.
There's no point of such a big feed if your starter is not doing much. You are trying to revive your starter and it has been quiet. Now it's bubbling again but only a little so you don't want to start throwing away too much and giving it a big feed but you do want to still feed it now it's waking up. Go for a smaller feed for now and as it strengthens so too should the feeds.
How active do you say it is now?
Because the starter is from Dry Powder, after stirring and not feeding, the PH level is low, 3.4, it needs a lot of flour and to bring it up to PH of 5 otherwise the acidity would kill the good bacteria, in my opinion: giving a bit of food wouldn't bring the PH to a level good for bacteria to grow
It's very difficult to advise as I always go by feel, how the starter is responding and how quickly. Not getting enough information to work with.
Think you've got a good idea where to go from here. I'm sure it'll activate just fine.
With all the information, the bacteria has a mind of its own, hoping it doubles at some point, I will let you know :)
when the temps drop down at night.
"...cold at night 70F and during the day 79F. How long it takes you to revive to peak point?"
I'd guess that you can count 24 hrs as 12 hours or half days. So it will take some patience. Good advice above. When you do feed it, feed before the kitchen warms up.
My fresh starter is lively it doubles in 24 hours in the fridge, and it makes fantastic bread and other stuff
to compare the awakened dry starter to your original. Do let us know how it works out. :).
it is acting like brand new starter, when it was mixed with water the PH was 4.39, I will let you know in few days
So it is done in tripled in size in 3 hours, lively and smells amazing, this is my second attempt, the first I added sugar and was bubbly not rising then went flat, then I tried again in less than 3 days this is the result, thank you all for good advices.
:)
Thank you, I won't be making bread anytime soon, the truth the starter ruled my life because it was growing so fast, and because I don't like to throw out the discard, I was making all kind of stuff, but how much can I eat and give away, so now since I can regrow it from dry, I dried it all out, and took a break :)