The Fresh Loaf

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Sourdough changed when dried parmesan cheese added

glenda's picture
glenda

Sourdough changed when dried parmesan cheese added

Hi everyone,  I've been making SD since March 2020, with einkorn flour that I grind myself.  I'm not  a perfectionist and always like the bread even if its a bit dense.  I keep a firm starter stored in the refrigerator and feed it 24 hours before I use it, so its always refreshed for baking.  But, I added some parmesan cheese and it is SO SO much lighter and rises better. Is it possible that the parmesan is adding some lactic bacteria? 

I don't use a high hydration, only about 220ml water to 450g flour (not including the refreshed starter which is 130 water/120 flour).  The cheese is dried, so it does absorb some of that water.  It started out as an accident really, cos I had some dried parmesan chips (keto things) -  which were very salty, so I put them in the bread and WOW, what a difference.  I can't get over how much lighter it is.  It rises higher too, but that could be a volume thing, since cheeese it added.  I would love to know your thoughts.  Thanks

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

You mentioned that the parmesan cheese was very salty. Did you cut back on the amount of salt used in the recipe to compensate for this? If not, then the added salt might have slowed down your fermentation and you had previously been overfermenting your dough. Einkorn is notorious for its rapid fermentation, especially if using whole einkorn rather than white (or sifted).

-Brad

glenda's picture
glenda

Hi Brad, thanks, normally the bread is made with 1.25 tsp of salt, to 450g wheat.  Since the paremsan was so salty I omitted the salt altogether.  You think that might have been it?  I didn't really change the fermentation time.  'they' say to let it rise 25%, (some say 50%) before you shape it. I'm afraid I'm a bit slack and sometimes forget it bc I'm busy with other things, and this time with the cheese it about doubled before I put it in the pan and it was still lighter than usual.  Twice now with the cheese.  I guess I just have to make 2 loaves, one with, one without and see what happens.  And also reduce the salt in the one without cheese.

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

...but now I'm beginning to doubt that the salt is the issue since you omitted it from your bake. It's unlikely that so much salt would be extracted from the cheese to make up for the entire 1.25 tsp. 

So that leaves fermentation. Too little will be dense if the yeast doesn't have time to work, and too much will be dense due to collapsing of the structure. My main experience with 100% whole einkorn breads uses about 200gm starter for 1300gm einkorn flour of which about 200gm is in a porridge. I use 2.1% salt and make 2 pan loaves of around 1200gm each. Total fermentation time is around 5 hours including 90 min. refrigerated. Like rye bread, I try to get it into the oven just when pinhole bubbles form at the surface. This gives me an airy loaf, open crumb by einkorn standards.

Another possibility is shaping the loaf. The einkorn glutens are pretty fragile so overhandling the dough could cause it to collapse.

If you post your full recipe and method we could compare.

-Brad

glenda's picture
glenda

OK, I take 30g of stiff starter, mix with 130g water, and 120g einkorn.  Leave overnight, up to 24 hours -till its risen as much as its going to, sometimes I get it after it has collapsed now the weather is warming up. I add it to

450g einkorn flour, (usually 1.25tsp salt, but not with the cheese), and 220ml of water, I do adjust with a drip here and there if it is too dry.  Yesterday it was, I probably put another 20ml overall.  Just depends on the day.  1st day with cheese was definitely 220ml, yesterday, I added more.

leave alone for 30 mins, then press it out, and fold it, do this over the next couple of hours every 30mins.  put it into a loaf pan and let it rise, usually a couple of hours, depends, might be more if day is cold.  when it has tiny bubbles just under surface and I can poke it gently and it partly bounces back, I bake it - straight into a cold oven at 450F convection.  Its a small tiny bench oven and doesnt get any hotter than 450.  It takes about 50-55mins to cook properly.  Thats. it.  I am loving the ligher airier texture, so I really to figure it out. 

Once I used a corona beer instead of water and that also had a lighter texture.

Also yesterday I had to go out and did put it in the fridge for about 2 hours and then when I got home I let it come to room temperature and then put it in the bread pan.    I wonder if temp is affecting...  or if was yeasts in the beer, the time I did it with beer, and same with the cheese.  Which would mean, my starter is lacking enough kick, buts its 15 months old and used twice per week

 

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

Just a couple of things stand out. First, you say you press out the dough before you fold it. That may be damaging the structure. Try stretching it out, maybe on a slightly wet countertop to prevent sticking, and use the dough scraper to fold it. Second, once you develop strength in the dough it doesn’t always make sense to continue to fold it. Usually 2-3 folds is enough, then leave it to bulk ferment without disturbing it. Again, just to avoid damaging the fragile gluten structure for einkorn. 

And yes, the temperature has a big affect on fermentation so the mantra here is watch the dough, not the clock.

-Brad

glenda's picture
glenda

Thanks Brad, I'll try stretching it carefully, is there a way to know when the gluten is developed enough?

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

It’s more difficult with einkorn. 

What I look for is that the surface tearing during the folding process is minimized. It’s really something you learn from experience. That said, the process is surprisingly forgiving, so don’t stress about it too much. Good luck and let us know how it goes. 

-Brad