First loaf posted in TFL...feeling a bit shy...
I have only been baking for a few weeks and find it very frustrating to not be able to read my bread and understand what went wrong or what could/should be improved.
In this loaf, it seems like the oven spring could have been way better and the crumb is very uneven: very large holes (due to the poor shaping?...btw, is it what’s called a Fool’s crumb??), very dense at some places (especially towards the top of the bottom half loaf))
I would be extremely grateful if someone could troubleshoot my bread so I can have a better idea of what to work on ....Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
Here is the recipe/process I followed:
80% hydration
57% White Bread flour organic
43% Red fife flour
20% sourdough
2.3% salt
Sourdough starter kept at room temperature / fed every day ratio 1:5:5 or 1:2:2 with 50/50 white bread flour + whole wheat flour
Starter fed the night before mixing / seemed fully active in the morning
Autolyse overnight (10h20) / RT 18°C
Mixing with salt and starter / pinch and folds
Rest 30mn / RT 19°
Folds
Rest 30 mn / RT 20°
Lamination (my first attempt ever...Not sure I did a good job)
3 coil folds during the next 2-3h/ RT 24-26°
Total bulk fermentation: 5h40mn until vol*50% in aliquot
Shaping was a bit wobbly as my dough was very wet
Proofing: 30mn at 23°
Fridge : 18h at 4°
Baking: in Dutch oven with ice cubes / 30mn with lid at 240° + 20mn uncovered at 230°
It all looks good! To even out the crumb experiment with different levels of degassing the dough right before proofing. You'll find the crumb you want/like in there somewhere. Enjoy!
So it should be a matter of how the dough was shaped then...It was indeed very wet and I had quite a hard time finding a way to shape it properly and gently
It makes sense! thanks again for the feedback
To wet, cut back water a smidge. Rough handling all along the process makes small holes. Gentle handling makes big ones. Experiment. A matter of shaping, yes, that's part of it. The other parts are what happens, or doesn't happen, before shaping. Enjoy!
If you stick with baking in the years to come, you will get a big kick out of your statement, “ I have only been baking for a few weeks and find it very frustrating to not be able to read my bread and understand what went wrong or what could/should be improved.” LOL
You’ve been at it all of a few weeks, and your success thus far is outstanding. Try to remember that many of the breads you are comparing with have been baked by extremely avid bread bakers that have been at it for years. Some, decades.
You are off to a stellar start!
Danny
Thank you so much Danny...I'm not sure I deserve the accolade though, but I take the compliment! I'm a perfectionist and have combed every single post from TFL in order to gather as much information from your fantastic community as I could...Now is the time for practice!!! But I'm pretty sure I'm in very good hands :-)
Thanks again for your feedback..but again, any idea why my loaf didn't rise much and why the crumb is so uneven (holes and dense areas at the same time???)..I need to know!!! ;-)))
I thought that my dough might be under proofed, but the dough sample in the aliquot jar rose up to 50% during the bulk fermentation..which should in theory be okay, right? (I was supposed to aim for a 30%-50% rise)
So my next question would be: is the aliquot jar a reliable way to determine if the dough has risen enough (the dome tends to rise higher than the edges..)? I've read lots of very interesting posts on that topic on TFL but am still wondering if it's very reliable (the dough is usually folded a few times during the bulk, whereas the sample is not...Also there is a different volume/therefore temperature/ of dough that must somehow affect the final rise...).
:-)
TFL is a very helpful community of bakers, whether they are newbies or veterans. I am solidly in the newbie category, but am making progress with all the encouragement seen here. Sometimes it's from having my own questions answered, other times it's from reading threads posted by others.
One of the important things I have noticed is it's ok to relax and enjoy the process. Which made it more fun. We get to learn how to make tasty things! When it comes out looking the way we want, that's bonus material. This is a hobby for me. Unlike knitting, this one generates the least amount of stuff I don't know what to do with. Either we eat it or we give it to someone, and I get to make more.
Keep posting, it's a great way to get feedback, and a fun way to look back at your own progress.
Happy baking!
Mary
I totally enjoy the process, believe me..maybe a bit too much ;-)
I just like to understand the why behind my results, that's it....But I totally understand that it takes time and practice!
Gail,
Thanks for posting and hope you continue! Welcome to the site.
Troy
Gail, the reason I didn’t post a fix for your crumb is because I don’t know the answer. I don’t remember ever baking a crumb like this and don’t want to mis-lead you.
I highly recommend you get Trevor Wilson’s e-book called Open Crumb Mastery. It is a favorite among many bakers on The Fresh Loaf.
https://trevorjwilson.selz.com/item/open-crumb-mastery-for-the-intermediate-sourdough-baker-1-1
Yes, your crumb would be defined as Fool’s Crumb. In Trevor’s book he deals with it and many other aspects of artsan baking.
BTW - I think you got very nice oven spring.
Using all white flour and 68-70% hydration would make your initial bakes much easier. If you choose to go that route, bake it until you succeed and then gradually move on to more challenging breads. Success builds confidence and nothing beats confidence when it comes to baking skills. In and of itself, sourdough baking is quite a challenge.
Alright then, it makes sense! I'll go a little bit lower in terms of hydration then and start with easy to handle flours...I tried to go too fast indeed! One step at a time :-)
Thanks again Danny
Hi there, welcome to TFL and congratulations on posting your bread. Looking at the crumb it is underfermented. Using my mature active starter that builds strong levains and inoculating my dough at a similar percentage it would take my dough about 6-6.5 hour at 82-83ºF to be sufficiently fermented before I would shape.
You might consider extending your bulk fermentation longer and warmer. You are correct, you do have the large tunnels typical of fools crumb. The rest of the crumb is quite dense appearing so these things point toward underfermentation. I just posted a thread that looks at under and over fermentation with descriptions of what to look for in the crumb.
Your next loaf will be better if you bulk longer and warmer.
Benny
Thank you very much Benny, your insight is extremely useful
So I shouldn't rely on the sample in the aliquot jat then? It rose up to 50% and I didn't want to go any further by fear of over proofing...
Unless your levain was really well mixed into your dough, really evenly well distributed the aliquot jar can be misleading. If there wasn’t enough of the levain in the portion of dough extracted then it can underestimate and if disproportionally more levain in that sample it can overestimate. As such I usually do a lot of slap and folds to make sure it is well distributed.
Now that you’ve done this recipe once, try it again and again until you have a good feel for it and get your bread where you want it. So now you know that for you and this dough 50% rise is a bit underfermented, so next time go to 60% in the aliquot jar rise. That is what I like about the aliquot jar, it allows you to dial in your fermentation when doing the same recipe again. Keep good notes, that way if you want to make a recipe again, you’ll know how it turned out when you fermented to X Y or Z aliquot jar rise so you can adjust or repeat it.
Benny
Thanks A LOT again Benny, that' super useful :-)