The Fresh Loaf

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Bread is a little gummy

Maria Morando's picture
Maria Morando

Bread is a little gummy

 I just baked a sourdough Tartine Country bread. It appeared to have good oven spring, and the open crumb looks good, but it feels a bit gummy. I thought I had good timing on the proofing, and I am having a hard time figuring out what I did wrong. I used mostly high protein bread flour from Breadtopia, and I also used a bit of white Kamut and all purpose flour. They have all been good flours in the past, but I was surprised to see this happen. Could it have been a baking problem? I baked at 500 for 20minutes in a closed vessel, and cooked for another 18 to 22 minutes with the cover off at 450 degrees. The bread did not have that light airy weight that comes with a well baked loaf of bread. I thought they felt a little on the heavy side, even though they looked very good visually to me. Should I bake them longer and with a lower temp with the vessel open? I have never had a bread look this good in terms of oven spring and have the dough inside feel a little wet. Should I use different flour for this recipe? Is it a proofing problem? I am think that I may have underproofed the dough at the bulk fermentation stage. That is the only thing I can think of because I wanted them to bake in the morning and it was a time issue. Maybe it wasn't proofed enough before I shaped the loaves? I thought it looked okay, but perhaps I was wrong. Can underproofing at bulk fermentation cause this problem even though the shaped loaves looked like they were at the right stage of proofing when I put them in the oven?

weekendbaking's picture
weekendbaking

I have the exact same problem! Hoping for some good advice here! 

Rickenheimer's picture
Rickenheimer

How long did you wait to cut the bread?

weekendbaking's picture
weekendbaking

I let the bread cool overnight. So approx. 8 hours. When I cut it, the crust had softened and the inside was moist and gummy. 

Maria Morando's picture
Maria Morando

I waited for at least 4 hours. It was completely cooled. 

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

Too much water can be addressed by:

- cooking longer and/or hotter

- lower hydration (less water) in the recipe/formula.  Each kitchen and ingredients combination is different, so recipes need a bit of tweaking, mainly in the amount of water.

- waiting longer to slice the bread after baking. It sounds like this may not be your problem, having waited 8 hours.

 

You didn't mention your kneading or gluten development method.  How was this accomplished? 

Maria Morando's picture
Maria Morando

I did stretch  and folds every 30 to 40 minutes for about 3 hours. When I felt that the dough was puffing up and getting stronger, I put it into the refrigerator overnight in the main bowl. I did not shape the loaves yet. I did not see a big difference in the bulk rise taking it out of the refrigerator. It rose a little but not significantly. I left it on the counter to warm, and detected some more activity fairly soon after, but I was pressed for time and I may have shaped my loaves too early? I am wondering just how much importance the bulk fermentation has before loaf formation? The loaves themselves looked as close as I have seen to being proofed properly and ready to bake. This is a 75% hydration recipe. I don't think that is too much water. I keep wondering if the bread was underproofed. My starter is very strong and very active. I don't think it is the fault of the starter. I am looking at the hole formation  and it looks a bit uneven to me. But the spring is there. I am wondering if what I am seeing is an underproofing issue and not an overproofing issue or a baking issue. Any opinions on this theory?

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

3 hours bulk ferment plus overnight retard leans towards overfermenting.  

How much kamut is "a bit"?  What is the total weight of kamut and the total weight of all other flour?  

You said after the dough was removed from the refrigerator some activity was detected.   It's likely the center of the dough was stone cold.  There is a lot of mass in dough and it takes far longer than most people realize to change temperature in the center of the dough. 

Focus on one thing at a time.  You wrote this thread talking about "gummy"(iness).  Gummy means too much water.  Too much water can be addressed by...

I see nothing fundamentally "wrong" with the bread in the photos.  I'll bet it was good.  

Maria Morando's picture
Maria Morando

I know I said that it was three hours, but the fermentation was rather slow. It was cooler than usual in my house. It was a large mass of dough, larger than I am use to using. 200 grams active starter, 750 grams of water. 1000 grams of flour consisting of  750 grams Breatopia high protein bread flour, 100 grams of white kamut flour, and 150 grams of All purpose flour. When I look at my formula, my bread was closer to 77 to 78 percent hydration rather than 75%. At least I think it is. Could that have been a problem, because I hear of people who bake high hydration breads all of the time? Do high hydration breads need to be baked differently? I am still partially leaning toward it not being proofed enough as well. I had a second loaf that came out  better than the first, and it was allowed to proof longer. It was still a little gummy inside, but not as much, and the crumb structure was considerably more even than the loaf in the picture. I really do think I rushed it and it wasn't ready to bake. The covered bake was at 500 for 25 min. The uncovered bake was at 450 till it registered 210 degrees in the center, approximately 20 min.  Should I have waited till it was 212 degrees in the center? That is what the recipe said, but the outside was looking too dark to me. I did make a piece of toast with it this morning and it was outstanding!

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

The original post said 42 minutes total bake time for a 1000g flour weight loaf.  In my view that is undercooked. 

You said you had good oven spring in the first loaf.  How do you conclude that it was underproofed? 

70+ percent hydration is fine, if you bake appropriately.  See the first comment above. 

Toast is always good because the toaster removes water and creates caramelization (sugar).

Your initial post complained of gumminess.   What do you want to about it, if anything? 

Maria Morando's picture
Maria Morando

You might have a point in terms of the bake. These were both pretty large loaves, I know that the inside was either not baked properly, or it was under proofed. It may be a combination of the two, leaning more towards under baking. This has happened to me twice, where both breads looked better than the texture felt. I sliced my bread about 4 hours after baking. It was cooled completely. My knife, which is a high quality bread knife, always cuts through my bread quite nicely. However on two occasions, this being one of them, I could not cut two slices in a row without the knife sticking and making cutting very difficult. I had to wash the residue from the bread's gumminess off the knife, dry the knife and take my next cut. It was just too wet inside. If this is largely a baking problem, How best do I address that? I don't want to overbrown my bread. I don't like the burnt taste on the crust. Here is what I am Thinking of trying. I will make the same recipe, but I am going to reduce the size of the recipe and make two smaller loaves. I am going to bake them as I usually do where I get very nice open crumb that is easy to slice and still tender. If the smaller loaves work better following that procedure, I will know for sure that it was strictly a baking issue. Larger loaves are going to have to be baked differently. I will let you know how they come out.

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

By baking the same flour weight in two loaves you have doubled the surface area for the same weight and volume of water and flour.  This will help your situation.

Sticking knife in gummy crust means too much water.  Too much water means underbaked, for the chosen surface area to volume ratio (loaf shape) and the chosen time+temperature.  Too much water can be addressed by longer, hotter baking, by using less water in the recipe or by changing the loaf shape.  Your idea of baking in two, smaller, loaves is an example of changing loaf shape. 

Compare a ciabatta and a boule.  These are on different points of the spectrum for surface area to volume ratio, given the same water and flour weight.   Comparing a baguette vs. a boule is another illustration of surface area to volume ratio differences with loaf shape.

Overbrown crust means too much time at the chosen temperature.  Or the temperature is too high for the chosen time.  Reducing temperature and increasing time, beyond, say 1 hour, risks a thick and tough crust.  So again it's back to the balancing act hydration, loaf shape, temperature and time. 

I left baking equipment out of the discussion, to focus on fewer variables.  Getting heat into the loaf is the goal.  A deck oven, a baking stone, cloche or a dutch oven are ways to get more heat into the loaf faster.  As compared with a baking sheet on a wire rack in a standard consumer oven.   Higher temperature is OK if heat is getting to the center of the loaf fast enough before the crust is overbrown. 

pdavis68's picture
pdavis68

Mine were coming out gummy as well. I'd let them cool to room temperature (usually 3-4 hours) before slicing. I discovered that letting them sit overnight appears to help a great deal. I imagine the moisture simply distributes more evenly making the center less gummy.

JimmyB's picture
JimmyB

May I suggest switching to AP like Arrowhead or Giusto. The more winter wheat in your flour blend, the less gummy it will be. Bread flour/high gluten flour is usually has a high portion of spring wheat which does not lend well to long fermentation. Therefore, gummy.

If you can't get a hold of those and you only could get something like KA AP or Gold Medal. You could use that, but change your method. Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-hIRJaZIv8&t=298s&ab_channel=KingArthurBakingCompany

I assume that the Tartine method is no knead and long ferment. You would have to get winter wheat for that. Try it, you won't be disappointed!