Start of day 3 pineapple juice starter seems to develop mold? HELP please
Hello Everybody,
I'm new to bread and starter. My 1st sourdough starter using water and all purpose flour develop a pink mold spot on day 2.
I happened to find Debra Wink's method (via yumarama.com) replacing water with Pineapple Juice. And I used organic all purpose flour instead of Rye or Whole Wheat. It's start of day 3 and when I'm about to do the day 3 feeding, I saw a dry patch that seems to be mouldy? I've circled in black in the attached image that I used an LED white light to capture the shot. The smell is much better then my previous water + AP flour starter. This pineapple juice starter smells acidic pineapple juice, pleasant smell.
I'm a bit lost now if I should continue the feeding or I should throw it out ? Please help if it's mouldy and how I can prevent in future.
P/s: I've sterilised the jar and the equipment but not the cover.
Regards
Kelly
Keep going and see what happens. If it really bothers you, scoop off the affected part and continue as normal.
Thank you very much, I'll scoop off the affected part and continue. Will let you know tomorrow how it turn out. ???
After scooping out the affected part and feeding with pineapple juice and APF, it rise up more then triple the following morning. Smell acidic pineapple and no more mouldy part. Day 1 to 3 was pineapple juice and APF (1:1)
I've just done the day 4 feeding and keeping my fingers crossed because day 4 onwards will be starter, water and APF (2:1:1)
Thank you again
Hi, Kelly!
Do you have access to any rye or whole wheat flour? I know that it’s been hard to find lately, but it’s totally worth looking for it any time you are at the market, and picking some up if you can find it.
The purpose behind wanting to use some sort of whole grain flour is that they contain a much larger population of wild yeasts and bacteria, having not had their outer bran layer stripped away during processing. Even just a small amount added into your daily feedings would give your starter a tremendous jump-start.
Now don’t take what I wrote to mean your starter with AP flour won’t work. It will, it will just take a little more time and perseverance. As you keep going, your mix will continue become more acidic, and as it does it will become more hospitable to yeasts, and less hospitable to stray molds.
Hi Mr Immortal,
Thanks heap?? for letting me understand the purpose of using rye/whole wheat flour. Yes it was pretty hard to find stone milled organic flour over in my region for a month or more. So when I saw the organic all purpose flour (Australia origin), I just grab a bag (1kg).
Then I saw the shop also carries Bob's Red Mill organic spelt flour, organic brown rice flour, organic kamut flour, organic buckwheat flour and organic amaranth flour - can these also replace rye/whole wheat flour ? These are non gluten flour type so not sure if it will work in a sourdough starter.
Happy (my SD) has survived day 3 and I've just finish day 4 feed. Can I change the type of flour to those non gluten type on day 5 or day 6 feed?
Cheers
Kelly
Any one of those would probably help (provided they are whole grain), although It might not be as beneficial now as it would have been in the beginning. If you do choose to use one or more of these you would want to use them sparingly, and probably not long term. In the beginning, establishing your starter is less about developing gluten and more about increasing the population on wild yeasts and bacteria. At the very least, it may be worth picking up some of the specialty flours, in the event that you decide you’d like to try something new at some point, like sourdough amaranth buckwheat pancakes. It’s always good to have options ?
Something else you would want to prepare yourself for is that anytime you change what you’re feeding your starter, you might see a decrease in activity for a feeding or two, while your starter readjusts to a new food source. This is normal, and won’t have any ill effects on your starter’s overall health.
This is an awesome forum, glad that I've found and joined. I've keep in mind to use rye / whole grain if I were to start a new starter. Thanks for the valuable information.
Going into day 6 tonight and Happy seems to flourish. I'm switching to 1:1:1 (SWF) ratio in day 6 feed or should I start with 2:2:2. And do I have to feed twice or more from day 7 onwards ?
Oops - c below
Once a starter hits it's stride, it'll be hungry. Higher ratio of food = less number of times to feed (more food lasts longer at constant temps). 122 ratio is a decent starting point for an every 24 hr feeding schedule. Also, a thicker starter tends to go through food a little slower (our little friends are not very mobile on their own and a denser medium slows down access to fresh food). And I just noticed the temps - you probably want to start with 133 for a once a day feed, food goes faster as temps go up.
PS - 111 is the same as 222 as far as a starter is concerned. It's the same amount of food for the same amount of starter. Wait, I'll bet that was a typo, nevermind!
It was my typo, shld be 1:2:2 ?
I've switched to 1:1:1 (30:35:37)* last night and split starter into 2 bottles with the same feed. Remaining starter in a bowl covered. Temp was in the range of 29 to 31 C after feeding last night. And 7 hours before that, I've fed the 1:1 ratio.
*I sit the jar on a scale and pour SWF into the container, hence the slight difference in wt. I hope it's for small variance.
The 2 bottles with 1:1:1 rise after 1 hour and more then doubled after 3 hours. It is still bubbling but back to almost the same level after 15.5 hours. The temperature today is 24C now and the range today is 24 to 31C, humidity in the range of 96. My usual feed time is around 9.30pm daily. If it's still bubbly, is it alright to feed at my usual time tonight? I'll take your guidance to switch to 1:3:3 from tonight's feed and not starve Happy ?. On days when I'm away, can I still feed this ratio and leave it out for an hour before keeping in the fridge? When I'm ready to bake, take out from fridge 1 day in advance?
Is it also possible to do 1:2:3 if the temperature goes up above 33C ? I read that the perfect kitchen temp is 21-23C / 68-75F. Looks at even at 27 to 29C , it's still consider warmer for the starter.
For the remaining starter, can I keep in fridge for pancakes instead of throwing ?
Cheers
Kelly
Weight variations - don't worry - I don't even own a scale. I do everything by feel and I'm sure I vary by a lot more than you will and don't have trouble, so you won't.
Feed while bubbly - no problem - our little friends have 2 priorities - eat and reproduce - given the chance they'll do just that. I'll mention the 133 feed here as well as the next suggestion would be for both instances - every now and then, like every week or 2, instead of feeding just stir vigorously. We know that too little food over time isn't good (acidic unbalanced), and to much food over time isn't good (dilution causing a weak starter). We tend to go a bit heavy on the food to avoid starvation, and by skipping a feed and stirring here and there, we're building up the bug concentration, and thereby increasing strength. This trick (if you can call it that) is how we can tell if our feed ratio is right for it's schedule. If it rises well after stirring, there's still plenty of food and things are looking good. If it doesn't rise, something is up - either to much food has diluted the starter and weakened it (not as sour smelling as it usually is and lower activity), or to little has starved it and weakened it (very sour smelling and loss of any structure). If you just stir and it still fully rises (like 3+ times - to much food). As things change, and they will, our feeding also needs to change. The stir thing helps tell us where we are.
123 - if that's swf - yes. Thicker tends to use a little less food (don't forget to stir often). Extra starter - if there is any - sure, but after a week or so it'll be funky (things still happen at cold temps, just a lot slower). Truthfully - I had sd pancakes once - never again - that's actually how I came up with a formula to build up my starter to what I need without extra. Since I'm not using it, why bother making it - efficiency! Enjoy!
Thanks Phaz. The youtube videos and bloggers didnt mention (or highlight specifically) about stirring the starter.
I've just stirred after 14 hours from last feed and it didnt rise much after 15mins, I can see deep bubbles. The next feeding time is 10 hours away. I've done 122 last night because temp was 24 to 26. I tasted the starter since day 4 and today is day 7. I noticed it's not as sour though it smells sour. Is this how it should be?
I'm feeding it 122 and switch to 133 at the regular schedule.
Would you mind sharing your formula how to eliminate extras. Thanks again Phaz. Have a pleasant day.
Cheers- Kelly
After stirring, rise times would be similar to those after a regular feed. When there's a noticeable difference, in time or peak, we're at the point of getting a little low on food. If you feed 122 every day and after a week you stir it and
See no rise - 122 wasn't enough and it's on the verge of starving, if not already there
See a normal rise - there's still enough food available and 122 is a little too much which will dilute strength over time
Smell is subjective, but it should be a pleasant smell. When my starters get a strong sour and hit the nose kinda like rubbing alcohol fumes, it went a little too far. If there isn't an unmistakable sour to it, it's weak. I don't care for a very sour bread though, just enough that you notice it after a couple chews.
Formula - take however many days in your schedule (say every 4 days) and how much you need (200g) and divide the amount by the days
4th day - need 200g
3rd day 200/4=50g needed
2 day 50/4=12.5g needed
You start with 12.5/4= jar scrapings
This is with a 122 daily feed, or toss it all in to start and stir once or twice a day till needed. Note - it's very late and numbers are not exact, but you'll get the idea. Good night and Enjoy!
Thanks for sharing, have a pleasant week.
Cheers
Kelly
i started my starer using a spelt flour, if you go that route you might need to adjust your recipes as a spelt starter works very fast, faster than a rye one. This means your bulk ferment times will be shorter so you need to use less starter or adjust your bulk times accordingly.
Thanks for sharing Andy. I was thinking of doing a gluten free starter using Spelt flour after I've succeed in baking from the current young starter. You read my mind ?
Have a pleasant day
Cheers - Kelly
of the starter?
The temp was 27 to 28 C.
It's monsoon season and has been raining.
Happy (SD starter) is growing as it should after removing the affected part. Thanks to this awesome community's help.