Still aiming for better, but thanks WW posters for all the tips in the forums!
I'm new to The Fresh Loaf, and recently started baking with 100% fresh milled whole grains. Except for a few times, my breads were never what I was going for, visually at least - those fresh whole grains taste great. But things got worse the past few weeks when I ran into some proteolysis problems. That's when I discovered the whole grains page here: thank you to all the whole grain bakers who share your knowledge! I really appreciate it. I was slowly learning that I was over-fermenting, but the info on various threads laid out so many clear indicators and tips more efficiently than if I had plodded along on my own.
I am curious though, what kind of oven spring and ears are attainable on home milled, 100% whole grain wheat breads (hard red spring being is my favorite workhorse grain)? I don't think it's possible to get those super puffy, tall loaves, but what is possible? It's hard to know how to gauge my bakes and what are reasonable improvements when there aren't that many pictures of whole grain breads out there.
I'm posting pics of the progress: from proteolytic pancake (posted as a reply) to what I baked after reading some threads. The disk I made after trying to bake whole grain like white flour: paged through Tartine Bread and tried to keep the dough in the high 70s as that book recommends, let rise a little over 50% during bulk, used 20% levain by weight of final dough. I knead my dough before bulk, and my dough passed the windowpane test before I started the bulk. But at 78F for 6h, when I went to shape it my dough was a sticky, lumpy mess. Changes I made after reading here were to use 5% pre-fermented flour (so I guess 10% levain including water), bulk at cooler temps (70-72F), and only let rise max 30% before shaping and sticking in the fridge overnight to bake the next morning. Now I'm still not 100% satisfied - I'd like my loaf to be taller (I think it's about 2.5in but it's harder to measure without a nice cross section), but it's at least not a total pancake. Can post crumb after I cut into it if there's any interest. I'd love to hear any critiques on the loaf pictured in the top of this post. But mostly wanted to say thanks for all the knowledge shared on here!
Just wanted to say that I almost always bake with 100% home milled whole wheat, and no, I can't get the same ears that I get went using mostly bread flour, though the taste of the home milled is much better, IMO, so I don't get too bent up about it. I just made a loaf of Vermont sourdough following the Isolation Baking show from King Arthur and Jeffrey Hamelman - it always amazes me with the amount of oven spring which I get with bread flour or AP. I know some have come close, but it is a hard row, and I think you have to get most everything perfect to get good spring with 100% WW ( I normally use hard winter wheat ) Bread flour or AP is much more forgiving.
Yeah I'm not giving up that fresh flour flavor, it's so much better than the bitter taste normally associated with WW stuff. And I'm fine not having the trendiest bread on instagram. But would like to consistently bake rounded WW loaves, and cut down on the pancakes! How's that isolation baking show? I've seen it pop up in my feed but also miss it for some reason or other.
Here is a really nifty video that explores just this question: can you still get oven spring and an ear using 100% whole wheat in your sourdough?
https://youtu.be/Uj9nfkpS2u8
P.S. Yes, please show us your latest 100% whole wheat bake!
P.P.S. He didn't adjust for the increased hydration needs of 100% whole wheat. I actually think his 100% loaf could have had a more open crumb if he had done that. However, I have no idea if that would have translated into a better oven spring.
Good video, thank you Jess! Amazing how much of a difference even 20% white flour made! My latest bake is the one pictured in my initial post, and here's the crumb, and a different angle. I'm not sure if I can expect more height from 100% WW, but I would like a little more. Now I'm worried it might have been slightly under proved even with the overnight second rise in the fridge; it had a very mild flavor - lightly sweet, not sour at all.
My 100% don't get much more spring than this. But the little tweeks as I get more used to it (with hydration, handling and oven environment) make a difference. I say keep going! Your bread is beautiful :-)
Thank you! I'll keep at it and shoulder the burden of eating lots of fresh bread.
Nice looking bread, Stephanie. It's totally in the normal range for 100% whole wheat, but yes, I think you can get a more open and tender crumb than this as your skills at dough handling and evaluating the proof develop. To me, this loaf looks a bit underfermented. It may be that your bulk proof just needed a bit more time.
There is solid advice on this forum to put the dough in the oven at a less-proofy point in order to maximize oven spring, but the key to success for that method is a good thorough initial bulk proof so that the dough is very well populated with yeast. Of course, as we've experienced, those of us who are dealing with fresh-milled whole wheat can lose the dough entirely if bulk proof goes on too long!
It is a balancing act. If the starter isn't yeasty enough (too much LAB, not enough yeast in the mix) by the time the dough is thoroughly fermented in the bulk, the gluten can break down. I think one important key to success for 100% whole wheat fresh-milled sourdough is to make sure that your starter is doubling at least within 4 hours at each feeding. That way you can trust it will ferment your dough thoroughly and quickly in a short enough time that the gluten stays intact for the second rise. If your starter isn't there, it is a good idea to add a few grains of active dry yeast to the dough along with your levain, to speed up the proof. I don't think that our 100% fresh-milled whole wheat doughs can deal with these crazy long 12-hour-plus fermentation times that are called for in a lot of sourdough recipes.
I'm eating a slightly underfermented loaf of spelt sourdough right now. It's delicious but a little tough and chewy for my preference. Next time I will let the bulk go longer. And frankly, since I don't care about the ear and spring issue, but just want a tender, open crumb, I am thinking about pushing final proof a bit longer as well, and forgoing slashing. That the the method in the Elly's Everyday videos, and I have made some nice bread that way.
I'm happy I'm edging closer to good crumb for WW while still maintaining a shape. I've gotten a better crumb from not totally over proved loaves, but for this bake I erred on the side of fermenting less and baking sooner rather than later the next day since my issue has been chronic fermenting. This is actually the first time I've underproved on WW loaf, and I think you're right: I just need more experience evaluating the proof on WW loaves. My levain, which is equal parts starter, commercial flour, and water by weight, doubles in 4h at ~70F, so at least that has stayed reliable. I liked the crust better with an overnight autolyse (this one was 4h), so I may go back to that but keep the bulk below 50% rise. I'm counting this as a win and a step closer to that balancing act, thank you for your insight and all the helpful video links!
Thanks for this video Jess. I liked watching his handling too.
Stephanie , the isolation show is okay, they do it in one shooting, so many of the steps are done out of order, or using a different loaf - so they may start mixing a dough, put it aside, and say here is one I mixed several hours ago and now here is stretch and fold, then go to loading a different loaf in the oven, while they do another step. Totally understand why they do it that way, but to a newbie, it might be hard to follow. It is great to see Hamelman, I always learn something from him. The standard KA videos show him working with a large volume of dough, in this show, he works with just one or two loaves at a time, so that is more relatable to what we do.