Help!! Under- or over-proofed? An open crumb journey
Hello!!!!
Am fairly new to the game, with my starter (Stiles) being about 9 months old 100% hydration, fed 90% bread and 10% rye. I've been getting quite decent crumb structures with my bakes but am on a quest to a more open/lacy crumb with little luck so i thought i'd turn to TFL for some help.
I've been refreshing Stiles out of the fridge for about 2 days before i bake, twice daily. Usually fed at 1:3:3 and peaks at the 4-5 hour mark. The night before i bake, he's fed at 1:10:10 and peaks by the morning after a good 10 hours at 27C. He rises about x2-3 on average - very vigorous but small bubbly air pockets?
All the loaves pictured are 20% inoculation, ~75% hydration and 2% salt, with ambient temp being at a steady 27C-30C (80-86F) with humidity ranging 70-80%. I'm doing a short 30 minute autolyse and about a 2-2.5 hour bulk (or until window pane test / sometimes i'd snip a small bit off and do a float test) because the dough seems to puff up quite significantly in this weather, then about an 18-hour retard @ 3-4C in the ref. Baked straight from the fridge in a preheated dutch oven at max temp (230C/450F) for 30 mins covered and ~20 mins uncovered/ until desired colour.
I've tried maintaining bulk temp at 24C/75F and bulking for about 6-ish hours but it seems to yield a similar crumb.
At this point i'm not sure if i could extend the bulk longer bc the loaves were a little underproofed, or if i should have cut bulk/ reduce inoculation.
Just a point to note, i personally don't think i've been manhandling the dough too excessively and neither am i being rough!! I've also tried shaping them with just enough tension to hold, but without messing with the crumb too much (but no no avail)..
Any thoughts to help a girl out?
(above 2 pics : 70% Bread flour (13.1% protein) + 20% AP (11% Protein) + 5% WW + 5% Rye )
(below : same formulation as above, one seeded with Pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds and quinoa - @ about 100g total including seeds on the crown)
What kinds of strengthening techniques are you using and how many times do you perform them during your bulk? Lamination and coil towards the end of bulk seem to really help for me, but maybe you are already doing that.
It sounds like this is what you are after:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWRgfbR9x8c
By the way, your loaves are gorgeous!
Hello Elsiebake, thank you!!
I've been strengthening using S&Fs and coil folds throughout bulk, as a rule of thumb every 30 mins but more so as and when i feel that the dough needs more strength.
I think i'm struggling with more of extensibility than elasticity, because the dough seems to be developed well enough but without much extensibility whereby it rounds at the edges really quickly and stays pretty rounded in between folds. And since it's so hot and humid where i live, it's pretty difficult to handle loaves once they pass a certain stage, even if they're refrigerated for a bit :-(
Thanks for the link as well, i'll have to check it out!
If you want the crumb to be more open you need to add more water because 75% is on the low end of Instagram porn. Most of them are in the 85% range. Check out FoolProof baking, Kristen did a Community Bake on this subject here It sounds like your dough could handle more water. You would probably need to push the fermentation longer keeping in mind that more water will make it ferment it faster.
"You would probably need to push the fermentation longer keeping in mind that more water will make it ferment it faster."
Did I misread that? Since higher hydration makes fermenting faster, shouldn't the adjustment be to make the fermentation stage shorter, not longer?
To clarify what I was trying to say is that to achieve a more open crumb a higher hydration is required and to also push the fermentation and the proof to the limits. Yes, you have to overproof a few to find the limit. In the same way you have to push the hydration to the max. As the Beatles song says You know it don't come easy.
I would also add that you should let it go at least an hour or two after the last fold and do not do a tight preshape. I have found that some time spent on the counter before putting the shaped loaf in the fridge can be helpful. All of this should be adjusted for the dough in hand.
I will definitely try increasing the hydration to 80-85%for my next bakes and taking into consideration fermentation times too. Maybe reducing the inoculation to 10% might help slow down fermentation for a wetter dough.
I once tried to laminate my dough, as Kristen showed in her Basic Open Crumb tutorial, but my kitchen counter has little to no space haha!! Do you think i could divide and laminate them on top of each other for a singular dough mass?
Your bread looks awesome in my opinion.
Are you usually making the dough for two loaves at once? If so I can understand why your countertop isn’t large enough to laminate all that dough at once. If you are doing two, then laminate each of them separately at that point and continue your bulk fermentation as two separate doughs.
Benny
Hehe thanks Benny!
I've been baking a single loaf regularly and only doubled the recipe for this bake bc i wanted to try a seeded loaf :-). The one loaf barely fits my counter in the kitchen (i'm already using a wood extension chopping board tabletop thing i got from Ikea). Would it still help if i laminate it but just not stretch it to it's best potential?
Kye, I believe it would still help even if it wasn’t quite stretched out maximally. You’ll be able to judge it as it progresses through bulk after each coil fold/stretch and fold by doing window pane tests.
Benny