Is this considered a “Fool’s Crumb”?
So I’ve been intensively working on my shaping and fermentation control to achieve a better oven spring and overall better rise.
After fixing my overproofing issues and improving the initial gluten development of the dough today I achieved my best loaf up to date. Although I’m worried I might have gone too far and underproofed this batch?
what do you think, is this a shaping issue or a underproofing issue?
This bread is 79% hydration with 20% fermented flour.
The levain matured for just under 6 hours at around 73F. Autolysed for 1 hour and 46 minutes. Bulk fermentation ran for 3 hours and 48 minutes at 72-73F with 1 lamination and 4 stretch and folds.
Preshape and rest for 15 minutes at same temp. Then shaped and let rest in bannetons for 15 mins before going into the fridge for 13 hours.
thanks !!
Looks pretty good to me.
Oh thank you! I guess i'm just trying to see if I can avoid those huge isolated holes and get more like an irregular crumb with medium sized holes all over the dough.
I'm just a beginner bread maker, but my friend decided to use her starter straight out of the fridge, not sure if she fed it first but she ended up with a hole so big she could fit a fist through it.
Looks like a great loaf. Your shaping and bake look awesome. It probably tastes great too.
Quick questions: how much did it rise during bulk fermentation? Also, 15 minutes in the banneton may have been too short prior to retard. Did it pass the poke test after 15 minutes? If your fridge is cold like mine, most fermentation just stops not too long after it goes in. I had better results with a longer rise after final shape before putting in fridge.
Thank you so much! I love how even when we think the final loaf didn't turn up the way we were hoping, the result always tastes great.
It rose by about 50%. I don't usually do the poke test before going for a cold retard, I was under the idea that I should leave the dough in the banneton just enough time to start the proofing process and then let it proof in the fridge. Leaving it to proof for longer in the counter could work though...May I ask how much time do you leave it in the counter before going into the fridge?
Thanks
Yeah, great question. So I think we need some kind of threshold because of the fluctuations in ambient temps and how active the yeast are. I do know when I left my loaves and the bannetons for about an hour before putting them in the fridge I had a great oven spring and good light crumb. Best yet in fact.
I like to go from the fridge right into the oven because the cold dough holds its shape well and is easy to score. I also get really frustrated with fermentation after the dough has been in the fridge, because it's so slow to warm up and pick up active fermentation again. So I want it to be basically ready.what I'm going to be trying over the next week or so is finding that right level of final proof before going in the fridge. My guess is that if it's pretty close to passing the poke test, then it's ready. I've also been pushing my bulk fermentation to at least 75% rise.
Oh, wow! I started my sourdough baking journey by overproofing several loaves, so I guess I'm biased now to cutting the fermentation times short. I never thought one could push fermentation and proofing so long.
But hey, although this one was a tad underproofed, I'm happy with the overall result - now I have a baseline from which I can tweak and adjust to improve further. I guess I'll have to experiment with a higher bulk rise and longer RT proof before going into the fridge and check how it goes.
I really appreciate your input, I'll report back after my next bake.
I think it’s both, and looks underfermented to me. That bulk sounds too short to me. How active is your starter?
Loverly blistered crust btw, what’s your steam setup?
The starter is about a month old now (a quarantine baby so to speak...).
I'd say my starter is strong, though I haven't seen how long it takes to double or triple. I just feed it with the same ratio of 1:2:2 with 25% rye flour every day in the morning and the evening before going to bed. I believe consistency in the feedings is what makes it strong, and every time I feed it it's at the same stage - flat top and risen 3-ish times its original volume.
Oh, thank you! I think the blisters are due to the cold proof in the fridge, and then just before going into the oven I heavily spray the dough with a water spray bottle. I use the classic Lodge combo cooker, and cook for 30 mins at around 480F.
Your starter sounds like it’s great condition! Can’t wait to see what an adequate bulk will do for your bread!
How is that dough to work with? 79% hydration is quite high without fairly strong flours
It's actually not too bad if you work it really well and get a good level of development during mixing.
Where I live I have only two options of flour: weak national flour or imported Italian flour (thanks to the boom in Neapolitan-style pizza places we've seen in the past years).
So here I'm using mostly 00 flour that is actually quite strong, somewhere around 13%. The actual percentages are:
I mixed with my stand mixer for 7 min on speed 2, and then a lot of mixing using the Rubaud Method. This is actually something I've been working on a lot. I believe most of my issues when I just started baking came from overproofing and not achieving good gluten development.
Can't wait either! Although the journey to good bread making has been pretty fun so far
Oh nice, I haven't worked with flour that strong! I've been mostly using a combo of Central Milling's ABC+ (11.5%) and various whole grains. Best of luck
When I have done lamination I found large air pockets got in unnoticed. I would try lightly patting the big bubbles out after lamination and when shaping. I also think you could do a longer bulk fermentation at room temperature or a longer rest after preshaping.
Just a wee bit underfermented. Big holes near the top surrounded by a tight, irregular crumb is a pretty good indication of underfermentation. The oven spring looks good though so you're definitely on the right track!
I am new to this group, but it seems to me that the primary criterion should be "Is it good to eat?"
I can't tell from your photographs!
It seems it is easy to get good tasting bread when baking with sourdough. Assuming, of course, you aren't one of those poor fools who dislike sourdough. Almost every post I've seen where the poster is sharing pics of their flat or gummy or otherwise "failed" loafs has an "but it tastes good" type sentence in it.
So, at that point, you start striving for other things, that make it even better.