May 18, 2020 - 4:11am
Still not an amazing rise in the oven!!
Hi everyone,
This bread is 78% hydration, 250 gr Flour, 50 gr rye starter, 7 gr salt
Autolyse 2 hours,
Add starter 30 mins
Add Salt 30 mins
Lamination 30 mins
5 coil folds(every 30 mins)
In the fridge for 12 hours
Preshape, Bench rest 30 mins
Retard 3 hours
Bake in Dutch Oven for 20 mins at 260 C with lid and 25 mins without in 210 c
I still don't have that amazing oven rise. Any ideas why that could be?
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This looks underfermented to me. How long does it take your starter to double in volume at room temp?
Looks about right for the wet dough with some whole grain in it. The heavier and the weaker your dough is the more it will want to spread instead of rsing.
Just based on your formula and timings, it sounds over-fermented, and the gluten broke down.
The bread isn't too bad, actually. How does it taste?
Based on your formula and the photo, I'd say....
a 30 min autolyse would have been sufficient for white flour.
What kind of flour was the 250 g flour? What brand? What country? If there was any whole grain in it, then your bulk ferment was excessive.
If white flour, then 78% hydration was too high.
Rye starter is also known as a quicker fermenter. And at 20%, could be too high for a 16 hour bulk ferment.
What recipe/formula were you trying to follow? Link, please?
You had 16 hours of bulk ferment, on top of a 2 hour autolyse. Fermentation and protein breakdown still go on in the refrigerator. Especially if there is whole grain in the dough. You had at least 9% rye (25/(25+250)) assuming 100% hydration starter.
A "retard" does not mean fermentation stops. It only slows, and gluten breakdown continues too.
A good fold-and-shape prior to proofing, and a toothpick can fix the large bubbles.
And the baked loaf looks nice. That's more oven spring than my 90% WW loaves.
Thank you all for the replies. Yes I do think that I should have shaped it and placed in the banneton after the final coil fold.
My bread flour is Manitoba(220 of that, 15 spelt and 15 WW). I live in Dubai so it's a pretty hot country but I try to leave the dough in a cooler place so the dough temperature is around 23 while doing the lamination and coil folds. My starter is pretty active, it doubles around three hours after feeding(1:1:1)
The taste was great, but it always is I guess!;-)
Definitely underfermented. Is there a specific reason you wanted to retard the bulk instead of the shaped loaves?
How active is your starter?
Thank you all for the replies. Yes I do think that I should have shaped it and placed in the banneton after the final coil fold.
My bread flour is Manitoba(220 of that, 15 spelt and 15 WW). I live in Dubai so it's a pretty hot country but I try to leave the dough in a cooler place so the dough temperature is around 23 while doing the lamination and coil folds. My starter is pretty active, it doubles around three hours after feeding(1:1:1)
I can't understand why it could be under fermented? If anything I think it was over proofed with such a long process and not shaping immediately after the bulk fermentation.
The taste was great, but it always is I guess!;-)
Depending on how cold your fridge was, the dough very well could have just stopped fermenting. Temperatures below 38 degrees F will pretty much halt any noticable yeast activity, especially for sourdough.
@Zach and ST,
The large holes only mean underfermented if everything else is tiny round holes. This example doesn't meet both criteria for a diagnosis of under-fermented.
The fact that there are holes of medium and various sizes, and some vertical oblong holes (toward the smaller end of the boule) indicate overly wet/shaping issue, or over fermented.
Look at the timings: 2 hour autolyse, 4 hour room temp ferment, 12 hours more fermentation in fridge, 1/2 hour bench rest at room temp, plus 3 hour proof.
That's quite high for a 20% rye starter.
I'll invite Mini Oven over for a look. I'll defer to her opinion.
too much water in the recipe and method. Drop back the hydration or find a way to develope the gluten in the manitoba and whole flours more. It looks like the dough wasn't degassed at the right moment, too soon perhaps or not enough when shaping. Did you desire the super cells? If not take notes for when you want them.
Thank you! My aim is to get closer to relatively large curly crumb and as far as I know I could only achieve that with high hydration? A texture similar to Pan de Cristal... (I mean the shape of the crumb something similar to that with thin walls) I hope it makes sense what I am saying?
I would think upon the shaping. How you did it. Most likely just a little tweak. Like pouncing on a bubbles with an open clawed hand. Not to pop them but to get the gluten to make connections in more places. Perhape move them more evenly around. Does that make sense?
It does!! Thanks so so so much for the help! Very kind of you!