Levain method of FWSY
The levain method of FWSY states that the levain should have doubled by day 3, with alcohol smell, etc...
While this may happen for some lucky ones, it seems that most of the time (?), this early burst of activity may be explained by the development of bacteria(s) we are not directly interested in for making sourdough,even if they establish the path for the good ones, as explained in the two enlightening articles from Debra Wink - "The Pineapple Juice Solution".
Describing the 4 phases of sourdough development seems essential in understanding how to establish a levain and therefore not being discouraged by the usual (apparent) lack of activity in phase 2 (and even 3), and I found a bit odd that a book on sourdough baking does not mention it (at least in my edition).
Totally agree. That is one of many problems with that book..
As a beginner, I am interested in knowing other concerns you may have with this book ^^
many have been critical of his suggested refresh amounts - since it leads to lots of discarded starter. Others tried his suggested timings and found they were way off - though it may be due to differences in ambient temperature. For me, his overall approach just did not click, though that may be more of a personal preference things. OTOH, when I first read some of Peter Reinhart's books, I really found them easy to follow, and now I love Bread, even though many posted that it was too oriented towards the professional instead of the home baker.
It is worth noting that Debra Wink's article was originally published in 2008. FWSY was originally published in 2012. Although one would like to imagine that Forkish would be up to date on all the latest advances in his field before publishing a book, that may not be realistic. I've never read the book and know nothing about the man, but my impression is that his focus is not on sourdough in particular, but more on bread baking in general. So it's understandable that he may have never heard of this relatively new technique and understanding of the early stages of a sourdough starter that was published by someone whose name was, I believe, mostly if not entirely unknown in the world of professional bread baking.
What is sad to me is that it is now more than 10 years since Debra published her article. Most "how to start a starter" articles on the internet, including those sites that specialize specifically in sourdough and should know all about this, still mention NOTHING of how early activity is likely the result of the wrong (but not harmful) bacteria. Nothing of how you are likely to go through a dead phase as the wrong bacteria die off and the right bacteria move in. Many of these articles tell you to start feeding 2x/day somewhere around day 3 or 4, right when you are likely to be in this dead phase and bigger or more frequent feedings which dilute the acidity you are building up is the last thing you want to do. And, of the few sites I found that do mention adding pineapple juice or otherwise increasing the acidity in the first few days of your starter's life, only about half of them gave credit where credit was due, and I don't think I found any mention of the science of why this is a good idea anywhere other than on this site. Very sad.
I agree entirely that understanding the 4 phases that Debra outlines her in article is essential to getting a starter going. We see so many posts by newbies who are sure they've done something wrong while they are in the dead phase. That is how I found this site myself, altho I was fortunate enough to find a link on reddit pointing me to Debra's articles so by the time I posted I was no longer alarmed by the dead phase. I just wanted to know how to get through it faster. I wonder how many others give up because they never find this site and never see her articles or understand that what they are seeing in their "dead" culture is perfectly within normal?
I forgot to address the book itself. As I said, I haven't read it. But my impression which is sort of a summary of what I have read on this site is that the way he approaches sourdough can be very confusing for a beginner. Someone has already mentioned that his suggested levain builds are very wasteful, and that's the one that I see mentioned most often. That particular one would be easy to adjust for, and wouldn't bother me too much if it was the only thing. I can't remember what other issues people raised with his approach were, but I know my overall impression is that it is not a book I need to target purchasing any time soon. Maybe someday I'll check it out from the library out of curiosity and if it turns out I like it, I'll then purchase a copy.
Books that are more highly regarded on this forum are Bread by Hamelman, and Bread Bakers Apprentice by Reinhart. There was a recent thread which I believe was titled "name one book" and those were the 2 most mentioned in that thread, and I would also say the 2 I've seen mentioned most often in favorable context in other threads. Chad Robertson also gets a fair amount of love. Forkish does get some love, but also a lot of less favorable reviews.
Just to be clear: I do not own and have not read nor baked any recipes out of any of these books myself. I'm just summarizing my impressions of them based entirely on what I've read, mostly on this forum and a little bit around the web in general. I thought it might still be useful to you since I know you are only a few steps behind me on this sourdough journey.
Thanks for these references, I will check these books.
Eliot, you will need to buy Bread, it is not carried in most libraries, OTOH, you will likely find a Reinhart book in your local library. Also, if you check the Book forum, Dave posts details on specials for Kindle editions, you might find something there you like, though I don't think Bread has a Kindle edition. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61480/free-or-discounted-kindle-bread-books I have not heard his Artisan Bread Every Day, but according to Dave, at one time it was on sale for $1,99.
Thanks for this reference, the Hamelman seems really thorough indeed. The "mixing" step does not seem to describe hand mixing (rather electric mixing), but still very interesting to read.
Elliot, sorry to change my suggestion, but I watched Hamelman on a video yesterday and he said he is working on a third edition to Bread. Not clear when it will come out, but you might wait a few months since I would hate for you to buy the 2nd edition, and have the 3rd come out a few weeks later. Here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhHGfafYmJs The description in the video gives you a link to the recipes in that video.
I just bought Bread, ha! But will be fun to watch the video.
I just bought Bread, ha! But will be fun to watch the video.
Sara, I still think it is money well spent, my favorite book by far . BTW, I suggest you start with Baquettes de tradition - I won't say that is the best tasting, but I think it is the best demonstration of the impact of stretch and folds.
Thanks for the suggestion--there's so much there it's hard to know where to start.