Starter taking 16 hours to double ...
I am feeding my starter at 1:2:2 -- 10 g starter, 20g fl (50% ww, 50%white), 20 g water -- per suggestions on here about upping from 1:1:1 for my sad little starter that couldn't double.
It definitely picked up, and started doubling! So it is happier for sure ... but still is taking 16-24 hours, if it doubles at all. Today it only rose to maybe 1.5x before deflating after 15 hours. It did pass a float test at that 15 hour mark, i think -- it floated for a few minutes and then sank.
Any new suggestions as to why it would not be doubling now?
Also, other than temp adjustment, how can I get this baby to rise faster, so it won't take me 3 days to bake a loaf of bread?
I want to build it up for a simple 123 loaf but I'm sort of befuddled, how could it raise a dough if it can't raise itself? *sigh* the emotional rollercoaster this thing is taking me on is giving my toddler a run for his money!
Seems normal to me. My starters and doughs never really double.
I am curious, are your loaves pretty dense without much rise?
My starter is fairly new and has not performed well in baking. I've only baked 4 loaves so far I think and they are coming out flat and soooo dense. Each is a little taller than the last, but still barely any rise, no spring, and no nooks and crannies.
i read that a new starter takes a couple of months before you can really bake with it. I'm wondering if that's why i have gummy spots in my loaves and poor oven spring. are you doing stretch and folds? maybe it could be under or overproofing? IDK. maybe this is a case of the blind leading the blind here. lol
I think you’re on your way here! What temperature is the area you’re leaving the starter in? You might consider finding a warmer spot for your starter
Eventually you should be seeing doubling occur much faster
For instance, this morning I knew I wanted to bake, but hadn’t built the levain the night before. So I autolysed the flours and water while I built the levain in the morning instead. With a 100% WW feeding at 1:2:2 (approximately, I never weigh the starter inoculation), it more than doubled in about 3 hours in my warm microwave with a pan of hot water in it.
I'd take starter ratios (i.e.1:2:2) always as a guideline. You have to manage your starter. Sometimes you'll need it to mature quickly and you'll need 1:1:1, another day you might need it after 12-16 hours and you might decide to feed it 1:4:4 or 1:5:5.
This said,, what's he temperature of the room where you keep it? Try to keep it at 26C.
If you are already keeping it at that temperature, and it's not overly acidic (smell) I'd do a few 1:5:5 cycles at 26 C and see what happens.
If it smelled strongly of acid (vinegar) I'd on the contrary do at least one cycle of 1:5:5 followed by a few 1:2:2 to reduce the acid load you carry over when you refresh it. Your problem might lie there.
Problem with starters is that you ask 3 people you get 5 answers and none of them is entirely right or wrong, everything is entirely circumstancial.
You might want to buy Open Crumb by Trevor J Wilson. It's the one and only book I've found where a knowledgeable guy talks sense about starters and starter management techniques. It's around 12 USD online and it's probably the best investment you'll ever make in improving your sourdough.
It is about 75F in my kitchen, 65F overnight. I was keeping it in a cabinet that was watmer bit it was getting a film on top so I was thinking it was too warm, but maybe I'll give that another try.
I will try feeding a different ratio at warmer temp and see what happens. It sometimes smells pretty acidic, sometimes not. Today it smells fantastic, maybe even a little bland.
I will definitely check that book out, thanks the recommendations!
Duplicate post
100% hydration starter, being runny tends to lose some of its gas (bubbles rise and pop) therefore doesn't double or triple much. Try mixing 1:3(w):4(f) and it should rise faster. And if you keep the same ratio for several feedings in a row, peaking times will get shorter. Once you bring it down to 8 hours, you are good to bake.
Ok, update time ...
Named starter Bubs.
50% whole wheat, 50% bleached AP
88% hydration
Storing lidded in microwave with light on (78-82F)
Feeding 1: 2.5 : 2.5 every 12 hours
Tried 1:4:4 at first, which doubled, then almost no rise for feedings after that.
Switched down to 1:2:2 which almost doubled but not quite, then less rise each feeding.
Am now feeding 1: 2.5 : 2.5 with some success at rise but still not doubling by time of peak.
Each time I switch the ratio, up or down, Bubs loves it and has better rise, but only for the first feeding, then almost no rise for subsequent feedings at same ratio.
Gets kinda acidic smelling by 12 hours, which I take to mean "we're hungry!" So am continuing 12 hour feeding, based on smell, even though not doubled. I consider this to be peak. I don't think peak is happening any sooner after consistent new schedule though.
Was keeping 5g of Bubs and adding water and flour at ratios mentioned above. Am now keeping 10g of Bubs and feeding. Seems like the 5g wasn't enough to produce rise, or maybe too little to see. 10g has better math for my hydration decrease as well.
Sometimes passes float test, sometimes floats for a min then sinks, sometimes just sinks like a brick.
Tried to mix a 1-2-3 no knead dough, but did a stretch and fold because seemed way to slack. But ultimately could not use the dough to bake because it was an actual puddle of sticky-icky that couldn't be shaped. Tossed it.
Any new advice now?
*Sigh*
Is there a reason you’re using a lower than 100% hydration? Especially considering the whole wheat, I’d go for 100%. (And of course fermentation happens faster when it’s wetter)
I’m sorry you’re having so much trouble! One thing I want to verify: are you refeeding the starter when it’s at or around peak?
The 100% hydration was very soupy, i lowered the hydration to see if that would give it some structure and be able to hold in the gas bubbles. It seemed to work at first when i changed hydration.
I was using a lower whole wheat ratio before this with 100% hydration. But I upped to 50% ww at the same time i changed hydration. I probably should have only changed one thing at a time, but was getting impatient.
I think maybe the fact that half my flour is bleached, made the 100% starter extremely liquidy. It has not fared well with any of the doughs i have tried to mix so far. Basically zero rise in all loaves.
At peak, am taking 10g out and feeding that 10g with 1: 2.5 : 2.5
Discarding remainder into jar in my fridge that i save up until i have enough to make pancakes with. When i was only taking 5g out and refeeding it wasn't making much discard, but also didn't seem to be strong enough to do jack.
Have you tried your local stores recently to see if they have a better selection of flour now? Using that bleached flour when your starter is still not very vigorous might be hurting your progress. Altho with 50% WW I would think it would be pretty happy. As you stated, that flour is also probably making your starter too liquidy to hold bubbles. The liquidy-state isn't harmful to your starter, but if it's not holding bubbles it does make it harder to evaluate how your starter is doing.
I am currently using King Arthur brand unbleached AP flour for my starter (also used WW when he was younger to help him get going), and he seems to be doing pretty well on that. That flour also makes a 100% hydration starter that has enough structure to it to hold bubbles. He always at least doubles and usually gets to about triple when he peaks. That brand of AP flour has more protein in it than a lot of AP flours and is closer to the bread flour range.
Have you gone back to keeping your starter in the warmer cupboard? You might want to check the temp in there to be sure just how warm it is, but it sounds like a better environment than having the temp drop as low as 65F at night. If you are having issues with it getting too dry on top, figure out a way to cover it a little tighter while still allowing pressure to escape if it needs to.
Still just bleached and ww at the stores, super frustrating.
I do have some vital wheat gluten I could add, but with half ww it seems redundant
I am storing Bubs in a warmer place, I thelink they are happier with that. Ive put a better lid on it so it isn't drying out on top anymore
I really want to make more loaves, but I can not even focus on that because I can't get past making the levain in the 123 recipe! I'm so jealous of everyone who is troubleshooting their baking instead of troubleshooting getting the starter strong enough to bake with.
Getting ready to give up, but Ive spent months on thos and it feels wrong to give up!
It is hard to get good results when you don't have access to the proper tools, no matter what you are doing. And with starter, the most important tool is the flour you feed it. I think your mix of bleached AP and WW should be good enough, even if it's not ideal. But I know leading up to this point you were using a variety of other things, so it's not a surprise it's taking you a while to get to your end goal. Don't give up yet!