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Osmotolerant starter vs lievito madre for pandoro

ilpanesalato's picture
ilpanesalato

Osmotolerant starter vs lievito madre for pandoro

Hi Everyone,

I am a long-time lurker but have recently become very interested in the microbiology of sour dough starters, and I have a question related to osmotolerance.  This seems like the right place to ask as you are all so knowledgable!

My understanding of the italian lievito madre  method, which is a very beautiful but time consuming method, is that it selects for osmotolerant wild yeast and lactobacillus strains in the flour so that over time the SCOBY becomes better adapted to higher sugar and higher fat environments.  

My first question is: what would happen if I gradually started adding a small amount of sugar to my starter every day, and gradually increased the sugar dosage to match a typical enriched dough? Assuming I fed it with a good source of new yeast strains (like organic whole-grain rye), I feel like this would also select for osmotolerant yeast and generate a starter that could make a good loaf of enriched bread.

My second question is: how different would this starter be from a traditional lievito madre? Why is the lievito madre process so much more complex than simply adding sugar to the starter, and what is being achieved besides osmotolerance?  I am assuming that the process is the way it is for a reason and not just tradition.

That's it - those are my questions.  Sorry if they are obvious . . . 

 

andythebaker's picture
andythebaker

i use an osmotolerant starter that successfully raises a panettone.  it is 15% sugar, at 45% hydration.

i wouldn't go too high, as after repeated feeding it starts getting... sticky.  i haven't delved too much into the science behind that.  but the 15% sugar stiff starter performs admirably well.

i do keep this separate from my main starter.

good luck.

ilpanesalato's picture
ilpanesalato

Great, thanks for the reply!  Can you tell me a bit more about your starter?  Did you gradually increase the sugar or just start at 15%? Did you convert an existing one or did you start from scratch? Do you feed it whole grain or white? Is that 15% bakers percentage or weight percentage?

Thanks and sorry for hitting you with so many more questions . . . 

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Andy, after ~2 months of constantly feeding 3-4 times daily, I gave up Lievito Madre. Try as I may, it wouldn’t consistently rise and the imported Italian flour wasn’t cheap.

In a post a few years back you wrote, 
“ it's fed every 12 hours (kept at "room temperature" 20-22c/68-72f) with the following proportions

  flour 100%

  water 100%

  sugar 20%

  levain 25%

i'd give it several days of feedings before using.”

It seems you’ve updated your process. Before I give this a try, have you made any recent changes that you recommend I implement? I want to learn this process and give it a try.

I appreciate your help!
danny