Community Bake - Maurizio's SD Baguettes - Everyone is Welcome
We are baking Maurizio's Sourdough Baguettes. I am in the process of baking these baguettes for the third time. After test baking, I can say that the instructions and also the flavor of this bread is very good.
Since most bakers are separated by many miles and even different countries, this “community bake” may be the best way to share information and learn together along the way. The idea, for those who want to participate, is that we document our progress with pictures and post. It is suggested that each participant start a new comment to document their progress. As more information and images are available for your bake you can edit that post and append it. We’ll share our success, and just as informative, our failures. During the process we can ask questions, compare results, or offer suggestions. Both expert and novice have a place here.
We plan to start our bake today. We will be following Maurizio's well documented instructions. They can be found here. https://www.theperfectloaf.com/sourdough-baguettes/
I hope you choose to join in. The more the merrier. Even if you don’t come aboard now you can still post your bake and results at any time in the future. All threads are constantly monitored for recent activity. Be sure, someone will be available to assist you.
Here is a screen grab of the downloadable spreadsheet.
Dan
It is good to remember, "we learn more from our failures than we do from success".
Post it all. The good, the bad, and (if you dare) the ugly.
I halfed the formula so that I only baked 3 loaves. The first bake I went with 90% Whole Foods AP flour. It is my understanding that Central Milling makes this. Their version is call Beehive flour. For the high gluten I elected KA Sir Lancelot @ 10%. I was very happy with the outcome. Still don't get great ears, but I guess that is a good thing. The bread is unable to hear (no ears) my disappointing comments about it as I peek into the oven. LOL
- - - First Bake
- - - Second Bake
This time I went with a flour protein of 10%. I used Whole Foods AP flour, which is milled by Central Milling as Beehive Organic flour. I used all of the called for water. The dough was very slack, but 600 slap & folds made itmuch more manageable.
I think I retarded the dough @ 53F for too long. Here is the thermal chart. https://share.fireboard.io/1AF2AF You can see large bubbles below. The dough was puffy and difficult to shape into baguettes. I look foward to examining the crumb.
- - - Third Bake
For this bake I choose to go with Central Milling’s T70. I also supplemented 1/3 of water with yogurt whey. I forgot to set the alarm for the S&F (I used Coild Folds) so I had to wing it. I managed 2 CF and the dough looked medium strong and ready to retard. For the second bake, the proofer was set to 53F dough temp. This time I set the dough temp for 47F. I suspect I over fermented the second bake.
Still no ears, but the breads are baking up very nice. I tried Dab’s suggestion of chilling the shaped dough before scoring. As expected it was easier to handle but either I seriously lack scoring skills or my dough is not up to the task. Maybe both :-(. ...but, I ain’t giving up ;-)
I really like the way this Central Milling T70 flour worked out. You can bits of bran in the flour. The crumb wae nice and soft, and tasty.
- - - Fourth Bake
I am pleased with all of the SD Bag bakes. BUT, shaping and scoring skills need vast improvements.
This time I used a 100% Whole Rye NMNF starter. I also adapted Trevor’s favorite mix. I went with 88% KA AP, 8% Whole Rye, and 4% Whole Spelt. I opted for 300 Slap & Folds, but found the dough somewhat dry. So during the Slap & Folds I wet my hands on occasion to up the hydration until it felt right.
I elected to forego and more dough manipulation after the Slap & Folds. I figure if that didn’t provide strength to the dough, nothing else would. Itried something different this time. After the room temp BF was complete, the dough was divided, pre-shaped, and shaped. The couched doughs were retarded over night nad the scored and baked cold. What a mess! although extremely easy to score the skin was thick and the dough underproofed. See Below. Question - I have struggled with extreme open crumb in the past. Any ideas why all of these bakes are so open when my other breads are not?
Here is the ugly...
But boy, did they score good ;-)
If you look very closely at the image below, you will see 2 faint lines (indentations) running parallel to the center of the bread. I used a very thin peice of string (fishing line), pressing it down onto the dough to make some me guide loaf ns. This worked very well. Beginners should consider trying this tip.
This bake was a flop.
I plan to edit this post as new information regarding my bakes become available.
Danny
- - - Fifth Bake “Redemption”
Since I was fortunate enough to achieve extreme open crumb on the first 3 bakes, I have decided to start focusing on shaping and scoring. As advised, I lowered the hydration, but I can’t say for sure what the actual hydration was. I originally mixed at 65%, but the dough was way too stiff, so I gradually wet my hnads as I kneaded until the dough felt workable but not wet. Next time I’ll do things differently. I plan to autolyse at 65% (taking into account the starter hydration). Then in a separate bowl I will weigh out 5% more water. Once the final dough is mixed, I’ll use that bowl of water to wet my hands as I knead. When the doughs gets right, I will weigh the bowl and determine the water used. This way I will know the true hydration for future reference.
There is a problem with the crumb. I have an idea what caused it but would like to hear from others first. See the image below, paying attention to the sections marked in red. As stated I reduced the hydration in order to focus on shaping and scoring. My shaping is improving and so is the scoring.
Too bad I gave the other two away. I would have liked to see the crumb on the others loaves.
- - - Sixth Bake
You know whay they say, “the sixth time is a charm” :-)
Looks like Geremy, aka kendalm and Alan, aka alfanso’s (and a host of others) patience and longsuffering may be beginning to pay off. At least I hope so.
- - - Seventh Bake
I found a way to practice shaping and scoring, and it does away with all anxiety. Take a look at this post for the video. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57225/tip-how-practice-shaping-and-scoring-wo-anxiety NOTE; I posted this as a separate topic in order to try and keep this one on course. Please make all replies concerning the video to the other post. This one is getting gynormous.
Dan
and I must give this a go...probably next weekend! I was wondering about doing baguettes after doing Joze's version of the 50/50 community bake. So you left me now no chance to chicken out...
The part that worries me most is the shaping and squashing all those bubbles!
Lovely, lovely job Dan! Kat
Your baguettes are looking really good with a fabulous crumb. Your scoring also shows signs of "advanced" technique based on their pattern on the crust. Now, just a matter of getting the lip/ear (or other various body parts ;-) ) to open up in the grigne. Good shaping, really impressive venture overall!
Those last three are gorgeous, I can't wait to see the crumb. I'd love to give this community bake a try now that the weather's cooled off, but it's going to have to wait until I can get a couche, it looks like. So nice to see everyone's results, though, and know I can come back to this thread when the time comes.
a kitchen towel...I have done that for both my ciabatta as well as baguette bake and if you use lots of flour it works ok....Kat
and those beautiful baguettes are proof of that Dan! They look good and after my first attempt literally just finished I truly appreciate the stress! I know now why I like ciabatta so much!!!!!
Kat
on your rapid improvement with baguette scoring. Very impressive. As you can see, and as with many other things, it is a two step forward one step back kind of skill. Sometimes two steps back too!
I know that you are a "nose to the grindstone" type of adherent, and the perseverance is certainly paying off. As I mentioned in my PM reply to you recently, and placed here for others to read:
A lot of folks may not give two hoots about baguettes either, and they may well be content to stick with whatever floats their boat. That's okay by me. My father had a saying "that's what makes the world go 'round", and it certainly applies to baking and decisions about whichever avenue folks take for themselves. No judgement call from where I sit, and to each his own.
As for your own video on practice scoring - well done! I dip my blade tip in the slightest touch of olive oil to make sure that the blade doesn't snag as I score.
Really nice work and improvements, alan
they look amazing and it's awesome to see the progression. I especially love the photos of the scores before they went in and think they are just beautiful - delicate curved scores - fantastic. As for the dense areas it seems to be a pattern on the last few games and maybe related to the folding during final shaping - but mostly the crumb is out of this world - congrats !
I believe when I folded the dough over and sealed the seam, I probably deflated the aveoli. I need a lot more practice with that portion of the shape. My hands just don’t seem to get that part of the shaping process :-)
What is the scoop on your oven? Is it back up and running?
Danny
I'm not so sure. When the bread bakes the seal is facing down on the baking deck. When you cut open the loaf, you are cutting it along it's length with the now-baked seal still facing down. Therefore, if the compressed alveoli were at the point of the seal, they wouldn't be visible down both sides of the cut baguette.
This is a funny dough in the sense that it is quite infrequent when I actually have to pinch the seal closed, as I do in the video. Typically, just the shaping will usually seal the seam well enough.
It doesn’t seem to be the seal. Like you said, the seam should be on the bottom. Maybe I am cloaking (using a dough scraper) too agressively.
Dan
up you gave me earlier. I am going to try, though I might stick my usual white flour, which is very high in gluten, so the holes may be smaller.... Or I can do 80% KA AP and 20% Montana Mills (my usual). Will keep y'all posted.
hester
Hester, I would be inclined to go 100% KA AP or the mixture you mentioned. I’m getting good crumb with the lower protein, but shaping is a little difficult and the ears are non-existent.
You know how Maurizio (like most other bakers) finish the shaping by folding the dough over and then sealing with the palm of their hand. He does that routine twice in a row. I did exactly that, but the dough still looked too relaxed after sitting a few minutes. So I once more folded and sealed the dough to tighten the skin. I think that particular baguette came out best. And the ears where starting to form on that one only. I bet I need to tighten the skin more in the future, but I hate to deflate the aveoli :-(
It would be interesting to see the crumb shot if you elected to use high protein flour.
It is really great to be able to share the same bake with other bakers. I learn a great deal from the Community Bakes.
Dan
to close up if you do not proof them in the fridge in a couche. Scored and baked right out of the fridge is the right way for 73% hydration. Give it a go and you will see how easy it is to get ears and massive blisters too! Lucy gives away Don Baggs secrets and he will not be pleased:-)
That crumb looks really great
Dab, I’m retarding the bulk dough now. Do you think it wise if in the morning I shape the baguettes and again retard @ 38F for a few hours and then bake? If not, what do you suggest at this stage?
Should I bake as planned and then try your method next time? I’d love to get the scoring down.
Danny
proof to 60% on the counter. Then in the fridge. The hour they are in the fridge they will proof to 90% and the skin will be dry and cold - perfect for scoring. Get that blade turned over to 30% from dough top and barely lift the skin with the curved lame. Perfect Don Baggs ears every time! He is the master at this sort of thing.
Thank you for this tip! Made high hydration (75% I think) baguettes last weekend and definitely had issues scoring. Will give this a go next time.
I placed the couched loaves back into the retarder and chilled the dough to 38F. The dough was, as expected, much easier to handle. But... I still manged to mess the scoring up :-)
NOT GIVING UP. I will be baking my fourth iteration tomorrow. I plan to retard the shaped baguettes instead of the bulk dough next bake. There is always hope, if one is not willing to give up.
Dab, I did mange the 3 Bs, though. Browned, bloomed, and blistered ;-)
The loaf I was trying to hide in the rear was a result of bad shaping. I tried to make a badly shaped dough better and it turned out much worse :-( But, I learned something...
Dan
30 degrees off the horizontal top of the dough/ This isn't a boule where the blade is held at 90 degrees and perpendicular to the top of the loaf. / that slash is 60 degrees now cut the angle in half and that the attack angle of your blade for baguettes.
I’ll get another try tomorrow. I am consciously trying to score at an angle that is low to the dough.
The shaped baguettes are retarding now. Hopefully in the morning the cold dough will not be slack, causing the skin to drag. I also suspect that the doughs may err on the over proofed side, so this bake I am favoring the opposite end of the spectrum.
Oh! I also paid extra attention to my shaping. I shaped the baguettes with a tight skin in mind. I only hope that this batch is not under proofed :-(
Thanks for the help, fingers crossed.
Dan
I tried this recipe and didn't get much of a rise off my baguettes - delicious though. Perhaps I didn't leave them to rise for long enough, or my starter is a bit weak after too much fridge time unfed recently. Seeing other's success does make me want to try them again though!
KatO, please post images of your next bake. I hope your bake exceeds your greatest expectations...
I have completed 2 SD Baguette bakes and am well into my third one. I can say that the dough does not look typical after the bulk ferment. The skin is smooth, with a slightly moderate amount of small (pea sized) bubbles. Study Maurizio’s images. Mine came out the same. At no time prior to the bake, does the dough look large and airy. Not puffy. In my case, when I did over ferment, the dough was more difficult to shape.
Dan
Hope you don’t mind me calling you “KatO”. We already have a Kat, aka not.a.crumb.left :-)
Barely any rise. Did an overnight in the fridge bulk and then took it out to rise again @ RT. Will post later when it's done. I'm not expecting much b/c of that. I did see tiny bubbles, but barely any larger ones. It's back in the Fridge to form a skin b/c the hydration is extremely high due to the Montana Flour I use, which is very high in gluten and also drier than most. I used it 50/50 w the KA AP. We shall see. I'm not hopeful about this one. lol
hester
I sure do love a good community activity. However, if you feel this would be better a separate blog post, I understand.
Not having a sourdough starter, I decided to make 47 grams of 100% hydration mother, inoculated with, .11 grams of commercial yeast. I will let the mother mature until tomorrow, then I will start the build.
The mother:
K.A. bread flour - 23.5 grams
Water - 23.5 grams
instant yeast-.11 grams ( 1/16 ts.)
But no time like the present to start on a sourdough starter.
Obviously the timings will be different so watch the dough and not the clock. You might wish to add an extra pinch of yeast to the final dough too.
Looking forward to the outcome.
Your right, Abe.
especially since at this moment in time I am very interested in " The Rye Baker" formulas. It will not be long before I run out of formulas that do not call for a sour starter. I look forward to seeing my results also!
I wondered about those bakers that don’t use sourdough starters. I am really glad to decided to join. Once your yeast is successfully dialed in, I would like to include your findings in the original post for other non-sourdough bakers.
So that I’m clear. When you say mother, I take that to mean a portion from a previously mixed and fermented dough (pâte fermentée). Or is it a poolish (fermented yeast, water, & flour)?
I look forward to following your baking progress.
We are an all inclusive bunch here :-)
Dan
Thank you for welcoming me Dan.
I guess since this flour water pinch of yeast is at 100% hydration, it would be called a polish. There is nothing previously mixed involved. The polish was mixed just before I joined the party.
Thanks. To be honest, I often like to use a poolish for baguettes. I like the “clean” flavor profile.
How did you determine the amount of 100% hydrated poolish for this formula?
Dan
LOL, I just went with Maurizio's 47 grams of mature starter. The polish is already smelling wonderful. I think she may be hungry before tomorrow morning. I have decided to start the leaven build at the 12 hour mark. My plan is to add 23 grams of water and 23 grams of flour to the polish at 9:00P.M. tonight. Then at 9:00A.M. tomorrow morning add an additional 24 grams of water and 24 grams of flour. From there I will watch the leaven and start building the final dough when the leaven has about doubled. Does that make sense?
Pie King, did you notice that Maurizio mention 47 grams for the starter, but the levain is actually 141 grams?
If you are not familiar with sourdough, you may have missed something. Normally a starter is used to build a levain. The levain is then mixed into the dough.
If you decide to use the proportions in the formula, I can think of 2 options. There may be more. If so, hopefully others will help with this if they have other solutions.
1- Since 47 is exactly 1/3 of 141 you could divide all other ingredients by 3 and use that. It would make 2 baguettes of the recommended size. NOTE - I actually halfed the formula and bake 3 baguettes per back.
2- You could build your 47g levain by adding an additional 47 water and 47 flour. If you are willing wait another day, you could let your present poolish mature and then add the addition ingredients in order to build the poolish is 2 builds. I bet the bread would taste better. Long ferment = Great taste.
Danny
Once I add the remaining 94 grams of leaven ingredients, 46 grams at 9PM. Then 48 grams at 9AM. I will have the 141 grams of leaven, at 100% hydration that is called for, in the total (100%) 1173 gram flour formula. I am using the 47 grams of poolish, I mixed this morning in place of 47 grams 0f sour starter. All the other measurements will be the same from there. The timing will vary. In my head I feel like this will work. However I am known to foul thing up. LOL.
Rye starter method as modified by Dabrownman
Day 1 - Mix 30 g of whole rye flour with 25 g of water. Cover with plastic wrap and let sit 24 hours.
Day 2 - Mix 30 g of whole rye flour with 25 g of water. Cover with plastic wrap and let sit 24 hours.
Day 3 - Toss half. Mix 30 g of whole rye flour with 25 g of water. Cover with plastic wrap and let sit 24 hours.
Day 4 - Mix 30 g of whole rye flour with 25 g of water. Cover with plastic wrap and let sit 24 hours.
Day 5 Divide in half and use half to make a levain and your favorite rye bread - Mix 40 g of whole rye flour with 35 g of water. Cover with plastic wrap and let sit till it doubles. Add enough whole rye flour to get the mix to a thick 66% hydration and let sit till it rises 25%. Put in fridge as your rye SD NMNF starter
Easy as pie. I make this every time I make an Old School Westphalian Rye Bread. It never ever fails.
I will consider this method. However, I am inclined to use the method I first used, which coincidently I found right here! It is the highly acclaimed pineapple juice method!
No need for pineapple juice method...... this isn't white patent flour. Make bread in 5 days instead
my 47 grams of 100% hydration poolish is looking a peach!
Recap. We started with 23.5 grams water and 23.5 grams flour inoculated with, .11 grams of instant yeast. The resulting 100% hydration poolish was left for the yeast to grow/ferment for 12 hours. At the 12 hour mark, I added half of the remaining leaven ingredients. 23 grams of flour and 23 grams of water.
I am considering not adding any extra yeast to the final dough. What say you?
I did add 1/8 tsp. yeast. This is where I am after 10 Min. of slap & folds.
12:00A.M 08/26/2018.
The dough was looking okay out of the refrigerator. I even managed to pre- shape it into 6 balls. Alas, the dough was just to wet for me to shape into baguettes. It was sticking to the sil pad I had to use very wet hands. In the end I resorted to using way to much flour on the sil pad. In hind site I should have rested the pre shaped balls in the refrigerator. Maybe I will stick to using my banations from now on. Onward set the timing for on houir at which point I will preheat the oven.
only difference being, i didn't try to shape my loaf at all. just rolled it out and laid it a pan similar to yours. Indeed the hydration made it impossible for me to shape also. lol.
Hopefully some of the following ideas will be valuable and worth a try.
Your dough balls look wet, but not like slop. For novices like us, this type of dough will be a mess to shape, as you already know :-(. Sometimes when I need to handle very wet dough I spray my hands, tools, and counter with a LIGHT coating of Pam (cooking spray). It helps me a great deal.
If your main purpose of this bake is to learn, what about using yeast to raise the dough without the poolish. That way you could bake faster and learn quicker. I am tenacious and repetition is part of my modus operandi. Maybe reduce the formula in half and bake only 3 loaves.
Last thought (for now :-)). If/when you repeat the bake reduce the water. I am dropping to 70% hydration as I endeavor to learn shaping and scoring. See my Fifth bake for the results. I haven’t checked the crumb out yet, so I’m not sure how it will be affected. I try to focus on a single aspect of a bake when learning. So I am willing (far now) to produce a less desirable crumb in order to focus on shaping and scoring.
If you don’t give up on the baguette, we won’t give up on you. The purpose of these Community Bakes are to learn together. Ecah baker teaching and sharing with the others.
wishing you great success!
Danny
My main goal for this bake was to replicate this recipe without a sour starter; using a negligible amount of commercial yeast. On that front, it was a great success.
The bake:
In a desperate effort to save this bake, I brushed the loves with copious amounts of water, just before loading. Slashing was a complete fail. My razor was sticking to the dough. I was lucky not to have the loves split. The loaves were cooked at 500F with steam for a straight 40 min. I did not bother to vent the steam. At this point, my faith in my baking prowess is restored! While far from a grand success, a very respectable first try. I was even able to achieve a few small blisters!
Looks like a successful bake to me, Pie King. Tahnks for posting your progress. Will there be a follow up bake?
Dan
Yes, but first I have to find a home for four of these loaves, so they can be consumed tomorrow. LOL. I am going to do some more reading and research, when I do attempt this again I will make a 1/2 batch. The pam spray is a good idea, thanks.
sticks for a party and the saved ones are special! Very brave to go for 6 in one go! Kat
Na, daffed, is more like it. Stay tuned I'll show you a proper Maltese sandwich! I found a home for three of the loafs, so only two lest for me to eat today. They are all ready going a little soft/ soggy. A quick trip into the oven will fix them up! However, they must, I stress must be used today! The next phase is they go hard. Smile. Thank you, they are special the project made for a very stress free weekend. When you overthink like I do, a distraction is very healthy!
Ħobż biż-żejt - literally - Bread with oil.
Hydration was very high and I should've left out the rye, which I always add. Oh well, next time.
hester
That baguette Looks perfect! I just wish I could enlarge the phot for a better look.
hester
You are not only a gifted baker you are a gifted photographer in addition.
never heard that one before, seriously. You are a nice person. The last thing I am is a gifted photographer. I do love to do Asian brush painting tho..... lol
hester
Thank you so much! You made my day, put a big smile on my face. My outlook is if you're not going to say something possitive/nice it is just not worth the energy. You know, (thinking out loud now) these group bakes are good for the members here to become acquainted.
There are quite a few people here I consider to be real gems. Your name was just added to that list.
Have a lovely weekend.
Hester
I may be able to confirm or debunk your rye theory. I started my fourth bake about 4 hours ago. I decided to try Trevor’s idea. I went with 12% Whole Rye and 4% Whole Spelt. We’ll see how it turns out.
Dab recommended some whole grains. I’m using a whole rye NMNF starter on this one.
Isn’t it great when a bunch of bakers come together to bake a single bread. Different ideas, methods, tweaks, and loads of data! Learning exponentially!
Dan
The images are pretty small. Are you aware that you can specify the image size at upload? I use 600 for the width and let the software constrain the depth automatically. My images are large, but I want others to be able to see details.
Danny
lol. okay.
From what I can see from the photo they look like great crumb and crust! Kat
The crumb and crust are fine and it does taste delicious.
This was a deceptive bake and ran counter to everything I'm used to experiencing. B/c of the flour combo, the hydration was very very high, like 80%.... so after overnight fridge bulk fermentation, I took it out and let it warm up, then pre-shape and then shape and last 1/2 hour back in fridge. I have to say, I do love adding a tad of rye.... So my formula was: 47% KA AP, 48% Montana grain white (which is very high in protein and really dry) and 5% rye. But that rye made it very dark. And NO ears at all, but good oven spring.
hester
I''ll use 15% whole sprouted grain to get some flavor and crank up the volume of good aria and have Lucy do the scoring so t Don Baggs won't be laughing at us as much as he usually does. I might even use out new wild and black rice SD starter if it perks up some over the next couple of days - now on day 5 and they say it isn't usually ready to make bread till day 7
Which black rice starter was fed bread flour instead of black rice flour on day 6. One leaks C02 and one doesn't leak nearly as much. Both are in the fridge now mellowing and getting to smell more like Sake!,
DSCN1755.JPG
I look forward to your creation, Dab. I didn’t think Lucy would let you bake a bread without using 30 or so ingredients :-)
I decided to add some whole grain to my next loaf after our talk a few days ago. 80% KA AP, 12% Whole Rye, 4% Spelt, and the NMNF 100% rye starter that I recently acquired from an “expert” baker.
It will bake tomorrow.
Danny
Now crank over that blade and get some ears on some cold dough:-) When I got back fro Happy Hour the black rice starter had almost doubled! It is the fist time it has shown any upward movement besides doming and cracking the past 2 days. Since there is not gluten the CO2 has been just moving through the starter and disappearing into space. But is shows some real activity now and doesn't smell nearly as bad! By Sunday morning it should be ready for bread making.
You mentioned something that I have been mulling over for some time. “Since there is not gluten the CO2 has been just moving through the starter and disappearing into space.”
I started putting a latex glove on various starters. I noticed that even though a particular starter does not rise as high as another starter, the glove inflated more. I know that rye starters fall into that catagory. I am wondering if the glove used to seal the starter container might not give us more detail as to the potency of a starter than the coveted rise factor. I have also noticed this difference using white starters also.
Is the amount of inflation of the glove equal to the displacement rise of a strong gluten starter? Does some of the gas escape the gluten skin? Even though gluten may be strong and well developed, it is possible that some gas manages to escape. Sounds like a question for Doc.Dough.
Dan
you amaze me with your ideas Dan! I saw somewhere how Doc.Dough calculates readiness based on CO2 but have not come around to try that myself.....
I am worried about the baguettes but stop being a ....and this should be my next bake and count me in...
Kat
an inch but put some bread flour in it and boom 4 hours later lots of lift. People are always amazed how much CO2 the gluten matrix actually captures and this one wasn't even developed in the levain :-) The Blue Man Glove is cool.
for a special black rice sprouted baguette community bake:-)
Sprouts are Wild Rice and Forbidden rice. SD Levain is a Wild Rice and Black Forbidden Rice one started from scratch a week ago exactly. Crumb shot tomorrow.
DSCN1794.JPG
DSCN1801.JPG
Top is plain crumb and bottom is sprouts added crumb
DSCN1800.JPG
Now for the bad part. There is a bacteria that lives on rice called Bacillus Cereus that are harmful to humans and may not be killed by alcohol, heat to 212 F or low pH like a SD starter. Read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus
I ate some of this bread this morning as toast for breakfast and it tasted fine, I am tossing my starter and the bread away so as not to have any problems. I guess there is a reason people don't make rice starters. It was still fun and I hope I don't die:-) Thanks to Mini Oven for the heads up.
I've made lots of Wild Rice bread before with no problems but none ia rice starter ....better to be safe than sorry
crusty, earthy look of those baguettes with those ears basking in the sun like some sleepy creatures! I can't imagine the taste with the wild rice but sure it is amazing. I hope you have enough time for a crumb shot before it is all gobbled up! Kat
Looks good, Dab. I would really like to try my hand at sprouted grains but it seems I always have too many irons in the fire :-(. I need to make it a priority.
How do the sprouted grains affect the bread? Flavor, crumb, longevity, chew, etc.?
I appreciate your participation. We all benefit. You always bring something new to the table.
Dan
I hope that you are fine and how amazing that Mini Oven is as always a fountain of knowledge!!!!!
What a shame as the baguettes did certainly look amazing! Kat
especially when you are in Japan and friendly people fill up your glass again and again! It is a shame that we cannot make a taste test as part of the bake..... Kat
I relaly love the stuff after the first glass:-)
Well, I am all set....
Dan has given me the 65% hydration version of Maurizio's formula today based on thoughts from Alfonso on that....
As a total baguette newbie I thought...better walk before running....yep....
I also did not have any low protein flour in the house so I am going rogue already and will use Trevor's premix method to get the extensibility of the dough with my usual high protein Marriage Organic Strong Bread flour. I've found that if I do the pre-mix with iced water and salt and then at 6C in my wine cooler over night I can easily leave it there for 12 hours...and get open crumb with the lower hydration Champlains this way.....
I also found this useful video on scoring and angles...
https://www.wildyeastblog.com/score-baguettes/
Bikeproof posted useful videos on shaping and scoring from SFIB and also try to remember Maurizio's technique...
Probably will spend all evening watching those again and again..... What have you done Dan!!!!! ha, ha..... Kat
sticks 100 high before the ears appear! For salty ones it's probably only 50 though:-) So no worries. Shape them taunt, dry the skin out on the couche, get them cold, crank that blade over, be sure and swift and poof 3 B's, OSM and ears...or just more great tasting sticks.....:-)
baguette?
baguette?
baguette?
attempt happens tomorrow and the other 97 will need to be planned thereafter! This is a bit like Trevor saying you have to bake a 1000 loaves or so......Oh dear I've lost count already ......?????
3rd attempt...
We ran out of bread and as my Champlain experiment with warm bulk, cold bulk and then cold retard will be too late for hungry mouths to feed and the starter refreshment was due last night anyway...I just thought oh heck...just do some more baguettes...with the AP flour that I still had anyway and needed using up...
Shaping was a very sticky affair, a bit like Alan's first batch in his video....great timing to see that just as I was about to shape this morning......I think the scoring has a lot to do with creating good tension...room for thought there....
Scoring was tricky with razor dragging through very soft dough but they came out with some small ears and I enjoyed the crust and crumb with some blackberry & slough gin (home brewed) jam that Pat made yesterday...
My 15 year old son just had a big sandwich for lunch and and is not quite sure what to make of my passion for baking reluctantly said..."Mum that bread is actually very good...."....oh gulp...made my day that.....
2nd attempt....
I followed Maurizio's formula more carefully as I now had 11% bread flour and used just a bit of the 13% protein flour. I just halved his formula to make 3 sticks...
The dough came nicely together and after turning bubbly in the wine cooler it went to be over night in the wine cooler at 5C...So again warmer than what Maurizio said but it does not seem to make too much of a difference...
Dough was nice and with bubbles and quite firm...
I did find it difficult to shape the dough starting with the batard pre-shape and this time followed Maurizio's instructions and made boules for pre-shape.
I find shaping quite difficult especially to keep the same thickness of the overall dough and not to have then 'thin out' towards the end...also when it comes to rolling to get the 'pointy' ends it quite tricky....should be better at that as I have been doing this so much making Play-Doh rolls with my son but has been a while!...ha, ha...
By the time it came to scoring I was a bit in a state and just used the razor as I normally do and tried to cut at a shallow angle...well I've got a bit of some ears...they are not quite in the right place...
I am surprised that I've got that many holes considering the 'woman-handling' the sticks had!...
I also used a bit more steam in the B20 and baked a bit longer with steam trying to get a thinner crust and not sure whether this was it but the crust is great and I think better than yesterday...could be the flour though too....
Overall, very happy with lots of room for improvement! ha, ha....Kat
1st attempt.....
I had no low protein flour in the house and used my normal Marriage Strong Organic White Bread at 13% Protein and gave it a 10 hour Pre-mix in the wine cooler at 6C over night with water for 65% hydration and thank you Dan for calculations...
The Pre-mix looked fine in the morning and I took it out 1 hour earlier to let it sit at room temperature.
After an hour at room temp I added the levain which I combined with my starter routine and made the night before rather than a younger one like Maurizio. I decided that the dough was a bit on the stiff side and added 40g warm water which should approx. put it in the 70% hydration area. Then I put it in the proofer at 80F to get it warmed up quicker as in the 66F region at the beginning of bulk.
At the end of warm bulk I put the dough back in the wine cooler at 5C/40F and pre-shaped in the evening after a bulk of 8 hours in the cooler.
I followed the videos as provided by bikeproof (thank you!) and went for an oblong pre-shape rather than boule shape.
https://www.sfbi.com/shaping-baguettes.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ebKpEG0tBM
I had to have the video next to me to remember steps and measure tape...but with unruly teenager in the house, dog throwing up I managed to make them too too long for the oven! Lots of cursing and just taking of ends and rolling again!
Scoring was a total nightmare....with all the people and animals in the kitchen but it probably would have been a nightmare anyway!!!! Note to myself make sure no one is in the house next time when I bake baguettes including four legged friend who is a H & S hazard!!!!!!!
Considering that scoring did not go well, I am not too unhappy with the result....
And as I was taking the photo a request for a sandwich comes in...well I guess that is what it is all about...
I have another batch of dough in the wine cooler with low protein flour to compare and hope that I will have less distractions!!!! But life happens.... Happy Baking and must catch up on all the updates with those amazing incoming baguettes next.... Kat
Crumb is great, which is usual for you. I also upped the hydration to 70% on my present bake.
But, the fact is, we are not at all aware of 65% hydration dough. We are so used to very wet doughs that a 65% dough looks terrible to us. We forget that MOST people actually knead their dough :-). Take that into consideration when adjusting the hydration downwards.
Nice first baguettes. And I know from you there will be more to follow ;-)
Dan
Oh, Looks like your high gluten flour worked well with the cold autolyse. I am using that method also and it is working well. Thanks for the tip!
and I think the cool pre-mix works well every time for my Champlains too....
I've updated my post with batch two with the weaker bread flour and that turned out ok too....
Actually, I probably would bake it now again with the proportion of 11% and 13% flour as per formula as saves the extra effort of the pre-mix and just 1 hour AL instead...
Toughest bit is shaping and scoring without a doubt for me! I tried this time to also make the a bit 'fatter' and shorter as first batch I made too long and thin....
Thank you for setting this up and it felt a bit like a throwback to my very first Sourdough bakes and get the blood pressure up!!!! However, also realising how much we all have learnt since that first community bake.....Kat
That crumb is pretty killer and they have to taste great. Very nice to see all the progress salt!
Happy community baking
when it came to scoring and just went 'free style'......Barney said at least they have 'character'...
Talking about 'character'....
He recently wanted me to tell people that he is not happy to the way he is addressed. Does Lucy have that problem too? He stated that he is not a 'Poochie' and for sure not a 'Blondie' and resents to be associated anything near 'miniature'....He finds being called a 'character' acceptable but really people should note that he descended from wolves and is a savage beast! Why don't they see that?
The worst is when they call him 'Mommy's boy'!!!!!!
its name is Barney. He likes to rip up his doggy beds and scatter them all over the room. He too is a 'character' and a great dog and working on at least his 10th bed. What a handsome nose too! Lucy is in love I think.
perfect to me, Kat. nice work!!!
hester
and making baguettes made me realize how much more comfortable I am with certain bakes now...which is a good sign and I think we all tend to forget how much we make progress and don't realize until coming across something very new again...ha, ha just made some YW with blackberries and there is something new again...all good fun... Kat
You are getting a great open crumb.
As for scoring, well, it's an old trope of mine around TFL already. Here are two posts about scoring with some links that are well worth following. But there is no substitute for practice.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49868/question-about-scoring#comment-366800
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/45299/getting-feel-double-score#comment-347920
alan
shall have a closer look at the links...practice,practice,practice as with so many good things in life!!! ha, ha..
But I am glad Dan has organised this community bake as I otherwise would have procrastinated around baguettes...
I've found that this is actually a great way to use leftover 70g of starter in the evening at 18:00 and then in the fridge and then pre-shape, shape and bake in the morning! Who would have thought.... Kat
and I came across Trevor's version of making SD baguettes...
http://www.breadwerx.com/easy-sourdough-baguettes-beginners-video/
If this is not the right place Dan I can put in a different thread but as we are experimenting with different methods and flours too, I thought it might be helpful...
I thought it was helpful what Trevor said about letting the bulk go on the younger side to encourage extensibility and not let the dough get too strong for example.......He also uses AP flour at 65% hydration for beginners....
Kat
Between my oven and baguettes going stale quickly I opted for a loaf but using the same formula. I need it to last a week.
I halved the recipe and added in some wholegrain as I don't like to do 100% bread flour.
The levain build has been adapted for my starter which is 70% hydration rye.
Because this was a last minute decision I opted for the Champlain method to save time.
Levain Build: (70g @ 100% hydration)
Left to mature overnight.
Main Dough:
Method (Champlain Style):
1: At the same time as building the levain, mix together the flour, 355g water and salt. Combine till there are no dry bits of flour and refrigerate overnight.
2: Come morning take the dough out of the refrigerator, add the levain + the remaining 50g water and incorporate.
[I see no difference in waiting till the dough comes to room temperature and then proceeding or adding the levain straight away. A difference between a six and 2 threes? Either the levain takes longer to work or you wait longer to add it to the dough. But adding it straight away you'll find the combining, mixing and folding all works to bring the dough back to room temperature more quickly! In fact it worked a treat and lost no time at all.Plus, you can use warm water for the added hydration after the autolyse.]
3: Give the dough a letter fold one way, then the other, every hour for the first 4 hours and let it rest for the remaining 2 hours.
4: Pre-shape and bench rest for 20 minutes
5: Shape and final proof for 2 hours at room temperature and 45 minutes in the fridge.
6: Bake.
Interesting to note that while it is high hydration the dough will not misbehave if the gluten is developed well. In the past few months I have noticed a marked improvement and a sharp increase in my learning curve when it comes to gluten development. This loaf was done in my next best thing to a dutch oven, the lekue, which gave it support (was being lazy and didn't wish to use the banneton) but when it came to handling and shaping it worked so well.
When the gluten is developed well one can go easy on the flour and even miss the flour out completely for the Pre-shape. When turning the bowl over the dough should come out easily and in one piece. While it can still be sticky it's gone from coming off in your hands to being tacky. It should hold its shape well. If anyone of these things is not going right then it's probably a gluten formation issue.
Looks like another typical and great “Abe” loaf. Many (most) of your loaves have a signature look. I think I might know your breads even is Indidn’t know whombaked it. I say that as a compliment. I see you maintained the original hydration but added some whole wheat. Was the dough fairly workable.
The lekue came through again... I need to remember to use mine from time to time. It sure is convenient.
Dan
I think I have a signature crumb too. Believe you me I don't know how that happens either.
I normally save the lekue for doughs I think are going to fail otherwise I use the banneton. It's a good fail safe but I prefer a freestanding loaf which can open up and have a nice scoring. Today's dough handled beautifully but still resorted to the lekue because I couldn't face flouring up the banneton and then cleaning it up afterwards. Convenient it is but what you gain with convenience you lose a little on the artisanal side.
The wholegrain came to 14.7% and it handled very well with the original hydration of 73%. It was a pleasure to make. I don't like to just stumble across a successful bake as I like to enjoy the process too. And so far the community bakes have checked every box for an enjoyable bake. I would have loved to have done some baguettes but if you see my oven you'll understand my alteration. But still I did the recipe and I'll get to taste the "baguettes".
Thank you Dan. Another thoroughly enjoyable community bake.
And thanks for your original post with the guide to the and testing out the recipe. Your bakes have been right up there with Maurizio's.
how each of us makes a version of their own! That loaf has so much character and I bet tasted great! It's a blistered badardlette! Kat
I wish I could participate but I have tried making baguettes a few times - Maurizio’s and from Breadtopia - a dismal failure. I really had trouble with the shaping and baking with steam. So I’ll just admire all of your wonderful breads and read your posts but I have to sit this one out!
Sharon
Sharon, if you want to learn baguettes, throw care to the wing and jump on in...
We’re all struggling here. Why not struggle along with us?
The shaping is a challenge and if the steam is problem, forget it. I have some ideas for learning to shape baguettes. Hopefully I will post them soon.
Dan
Make changes for your own needs and post your process. Everyone has something to offer. I couldn't do baguettes for whatever reason so just made a loaf. I still get to taste the bread!
We look forward to your take on this recipe.
I made a video especially for you ;-) I decided to post this to a separate topic so as to not dilute this one. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57225/tip-how-practice-shaping-and-scoring-wo-anxiety
I encourage everyone to check the video out. It has helped my shaping and scoring dramatically and I hope it does the same for others.
Danny
it would be great for you to join us! When I saw Dan's post I thought...really, really and really again!
I totally relate to the anxiety..do you normally use a DO rather than steam your oven? I think the shaping gets better in time but yes it feels a little bit like throw back to being a total beginner feeling again...at least that how it was for me...but when everything goes wrong I just google photos and publish them here and everyone thinks, I baked those...a bit like the film 'Calendar Girls' with the WI cake competition.....Ha, Ha....I hope you join us otherwise next time....Kat
That video is the best! Thank you everyone for your support! I do normally use a DO - it’s really my comfort zone. I will do my best to participate, but family is coming for the holiday weekend so I may only be able to do this next week. I am going to take it all into consideration and take the plunge!
I finally freed myself from prior bakes and tasks to get around to baking the Maurizio Levain Baguettes. Below are pictures of the first and second run on consecutive days. The first run was at the published 73% hydration and I detail the trials and travails of that run. The second at 70% was significantly more satisfying.
I detailed the journey from first bake French Folds through the second bake in my blog entry xxx. It contains a 10 minute video with step by step activity.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57231/baking-maurizios-levain-baguettes
First Run @73%
Second Run @70%
alan
and I could have a look at your video just in time as I was about to get another batch of dough after overnight cold bulk out of the wine cooler...perfect timing!!!
I find your shaping really helpful as it shows how much tension you put in the stick and I assume that helps with the scoring later on? This reminds me a bit when I use cinching on a batard and roll it into itself creating tension with each roll....
I also find that giving the pre-shaped dough a bench rest of 30 min in my case makes it easier for the dough to be shaped....but hold on ...I have not done that yet with this batch....
Beautiful inside and out! Kat
I've always opted for a 10 minute bench rest between pre-shaping and shaping. This may, just may, be the first time that I gave it a full 30 minutes. I've got the inkling that part of the improvement in facilitating the shaping is attributable to that extra rest (and relax) time. So I shall continue to do so for the next few batches and see whether that is a valuable tool. Always learning something new!
thanks, alan
Thanks for taking the time to make an outstanding and informative video.
Anyone interested in baking these baguettes would do well to check it out.
QUESTION - Is it possible to bake these baguettes in a home oven and have them come out less chewy and with a thinner crust? Even though the crumb is very open, I find the bread too substantial for my taste. I did try flours with low protein.
Dan
Man, I love those torpedo (tapers at the ends) shaped baguettes. It is the perfect solution for a stylish baguette without the burnt points. I will be spending time practicing that one :-)
The home oven question. I've made a potato bread a few times, and find that the potato (starch?) tends to soften the crumb. Perhaps adding a "little" to the mix. But be aware that the potato likely doesn't contain anything gluten related, so you might have to up the protein percentage of another flour. That's just a SWAG.
Thinner crust? I find that these have a thin crust with a sharp snap to it in the first so many hours after the finish baking and cool down. So I wonder what might be different between what you do and what I do.
Here's a writeup I did on the SFBI pain au levain with a thin crust - just for comparison, and another on the Vermont SD, also with a thin crisp crust. These are both low hydration doughs, 68% and 65% respectively. They should now be right in your own wheelhouse for practicing the whole shebang and perhaps getting the thinner crust you are searching for.
I've never found the sweet spot for truly consistent baguette shaping. They are usually in the "-ish" category of close. kendalm does a great job with consistency.
thanks, alan
at 75% hydration. Documented in my blog entry today.
oh, oh....I came across a number of IG posts that discussed different approaches to baguette scoring...
huh....never really paid attention before as baguettes were not quite on my SD radar yet..
so....here we are practising our scoring and then how about THAT post this morning...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BnIbpPPgFZH/?hl=en&taken-by=tartinebaker
It made me really, really laugh.... so I assume we can have that 'one-slash or not' discussion now?
One comment from an amazing baker on IG was ...."well we are in 2018 after all...."
ha, ha.... I would be happy with either way, if I could pull it off....... Happy, happy baking to you all!
is Mark Sinclair, formerly of Montana and now in Madrid, best as I can tell. He also scores his baguettes down the center, and has a handful of videos that are mesmerizing just watching him work. He also has the most unique workshop you''ll likely ever see, having shipped it from the US to Spain.
https://youtu.be/jWasB90oUvo. He scores his baguettes just after the 5 minute mark. He also does dagoofy dabrownman's goofyname "sleeping ferret folds" starting at 1:17.
and what an ingenious idea....I have to convince my husband that I can park it into our parking slot...and start writing a business case...
We also can possible use it for the surfing holiday for our son.too..ha, ha...
Oh what a dream...
All the goodies he manages to bake there....amazing!!!!!! ..Thank you for sharing Alan....
before they had a name:-)
<groan> I think I started something with the 'sleeping ferret folds'. It makes me laugh now every time I see someone use that term!
and I see no reason for the name not to stick to it. Tub Coil Folds are a thing of the past. It's worth making high hydration ciabatta just to see how important they really are!
What is Mark making?
Looks good!
I think there's a whole other video on strudel. Wa hat a labor of love!
I'd be a good customer. Thanks Carole.
I just keep looking through this entire thread drooling over all the gorgeous baguettes. It's just one giant thread of bread porn. I think I'm going to stick with my plan for champlain sourdough for my next bake, since I'm working on finding a recipe I like for sandwich bread for the family, but I'll definitely come back to this recipe in a week or two
Kat,
This struck me as a bit funny. What you'll find is that within short order, assuming that you keep at it, your muscle memory will automatically measure out the desired length of the baguette as you roll them out. Typically with very little variance. It just happens
And then you can park the tape measure in the drawer until you take on croissants! The back of my hand peel has measured markings on it for just such events, as little as I venture into enriched doughs.
as the measure came out when I realized that I made the very first attempt too long for the oven!!!
I bet that is a classic baguette newbie mistake! What a ............!
In the end I've just put the sheet next to the couche and that gave me a guide....
I am a great believer in muscle memory and hopefully after another hmmm.....95 baguettes the muscles might remember... :D Kat
Does anyone still have a copy of this spreadsheet? I noticed the link doesn't work anymore, and would love to scale this easily. Thanks so much!
Send a PM and include your email using this link.
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/messages/new/32564?destination=user/32564
It's not letting me access that page. My email is avatar1999 at gmail dot com.
I'll edit out the email address when I get your email. Thanks so much!
Thanks again Dan! Found an online file converter, and with a few corrections, I have the spreadsheet file working perfectly for Windows (Office, etc).
If you or anyone else would like a copy of it, feel free to let me know!
-Rob