July 7, 2018 - 9:38am
Dough sticking, rim of banneton
Trouble with high hydration (~80%) doughs sticking to my banneton - I've switched over to a 50/50 rice flour/plain flour mix as recommended in other 'help my dough sticks' posts, and yet I'm still having trouble around the rim of the banneton as you can see, where the flour doesn't really adhere to the bowl. Any suggestions? Cheers!
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I've dealt with this a bunch, and find that right after you put your dough in the brotform, flouring around the edge of the loaf and brotform rim works. I use a fine mesh sieve, tapping it as I go to give it a decent coating, and when the loaf then settles and expands in the proof, that layer helps with the stickage.
Also are you proofing/retarding with the loaf tightly wrapped in a bag or sealed compartment? Having a bit of ventilation can help in my experience, so condensation and humidity aren't making things worse.
Cheers, I'll try this trick around the edge. I'm in the UK where it's very hot & humid right now, which likely isn't helping...
Have you considered a cloth lining?
It looks like you had something great in the works. I just started misting one of my bannetons with a very light coating of oil. Then dusting with a mixture of rice and bread flour. Many seem to disagree with the light oil coating, but so far the results have been good for me. Before the oil I used cloth liners for wet doughs.
Dan
are you just using a generic compressed non-stock oil canister?
I use THIS SPRAYER with either Canola or Olive oil. The light coating of oil makes the flours stick better to the cane.
I also use the mister to work with wet doughs. I LIGHTLY spray my hands then rub them together. With the oiled hands I rub the counter and also the dough knife to prevent sticking.
A very light coating is all that is needed.
Dan
you could also use Pam spray or something similar, but the Misto sprayer puts down a lighter of coating of desired oil for me.
80% hydration can be tricky depending on flours being used.
Has the gluten been fully developed? When done so it tends to stick less.
Are you over fermenting the dough? If so, it'll stick more.
It stuck to the outer rim of the banneton! Did you fill it too much and/or let it proof too much?
What's your shaping like?
Tell us more... But first always start with recipe used, method followed and temps.
It does look like it over fermented. Do you think that is the case?
The gluten was definitely developed.
Dan
But I believe what we are seeing might not tell us how well it was developed. I can get these strands just in the Autolyse or within the first set of stretch and folds but will it pass the window pane test (not that I ever do one mind you but for the sake of understanding)? And right now in London it's 8pm and over 30°C.
542g Plain Flour
434g Water @ 95F
12g Salt
132g Levain (80%)
Final Dough: 1.1kg, 80%
20-30min Autolyse
12hr Bulk Fermentation
2.5hr Proof
Worth noting that it is indeed very hot in London right now, and quite humid. Both the bulk & proof took place at 'room temperature' - likely a few degrees hotter. Any tips for identifying whether a bulk ferment has gone on too long? The recipe above btw is from the book 'Flour Water Yeast Salt' - it's the overnight sourdough. I did the exact same schedule @ 65% a day ago and the bread was fantastic, no sticking, good oven spring, for what it's worth!
Plain flour in the UK is not the same as AP flour. It is cake flour and is really too weak for bread. What are you using? Which brand?
And at 80% hydration to-boot!
24% starter and a 12 hour bulk ferment will basically make starter.
This recipe is out of whack.
Making me feel amateur! Getting more help than I bargained for which is great - I'm using 'Belbake Plain Flour' from Lidl (the only brand they carry I believe, although they also have a 'Strong Bread Flour' - presumably I should switch over to this? What kind of percentage of starter would be typical for an overnight bulk ferment, just to give me some perspective? Cheers for all of the help.
Switch to strong bread flour. Next... reduce the hydration to 65-70% (for now just until you get the hang of it). For an overnight bulk ferment in this weather you really need to drop the starter % to somewhere around 5%. Or alternatively you can keep a 24% ish starter, keep out for about 3-4 hours and use this time for stretch and folds then refrigerate the dough overnight.
Cool, I'll drop the hydration down. I'm able to bang out 65% very consistently (despite using the wrong flour, I've now learned), but rather than jumping up to 80% I'll start building up in 5% increments, so will have a go at 70% next, and will reduce the amount of starter as per your suggestion. Cheers!
Just to confirm that it is definitely a dough issue. I have several of those woodpulp bannetons and they hardly ever stick.
No need for liners and don't spray with oil - it will just soak in like a sponge. Just sprinkle some 50/50 rice flour/bread flour into the banneton and onto the dough piece and all should be good.
Agree that you are using the wrong flour. Try the Belbake bread flour and I would keep the hydration at 70% initially and maybe go up to 75% if things go OK.
Lance
Cheers yeah I'll have a go at a slightly lower hydration w/ the right flour & a more appropriate % of starter before considering more bizarre non-sticking solutions (oil etc., which doesn't sound ideal to me)
Lance do you like the wood pulp better than the cane bannetons? What are the differences?
Dan
I used to have cane bannetons, but I once found some wriggly little beasties hiding in the flour that is stuck in the cane grooves.
Since there is no way to clean them effectively, I came to the conclusion that they are not hygienic and decided not to use them any more. Maybe if always used with a liner they would be OK, but then you wouldn't get the nice pattern. As I've said before, I'm quite surprised that food hygiene control bodies permit them commercially.
On the other hand, the wood pulp ones don't have dirt traps and can be cleaned with a stiff brush once dry.
Having said all that, and although I still happily use the brotforms, my current preference is for professional grade plastic bannetons, used with a cotton liner, which can be washed. They are very hygienic, take up less space in the fridge if retarding and equilibrate to fridge temperature faster.
Lance
Albacore, I've recently started getting tiny beasties too. My brushed out and oven dried bannetons are stored in my various cloches. Rice flour goes from store bag to freezer. I've even lightly washed with a brush & water, dried, stored, and they're back the next time I bake. Wonder if they were already in the flour - never used to be an issue.
Got a good source for plastic bannetons with size/shape options in the U.S.? Thanks!
I got mine from Creeds in the UK, but not sure if they ship to the US. However it looks like you can get the same from pastrychef.com, bakedeco.com or tmbbaking.com
Size-wise, I find that the green 500g rectangular ones will hold up to 900g of sourdough.
You will need cotton liners, too - I made my own from curtain lining, but maybe the above companies can supply them.
Afer use I just wash the baskets and liners in soapy water, rinse and dry. The baskets can be dishwashed too.
Lance