May 13, 2017 - 10:27am
Borodinsky recipe scald question
About to do the starter build and scald. Seem to remember a discussion about whether the coriander goes into the scald or the final dough. Which is the most authentic method?
So I bought some crystal rye malt as a close second to red rye malt. After grinding some, and inhaling a lung full, it does look like a very close substitute. The aroma really comes out when ground. Looking forward to baking some Borodinsky bread with the closest authentic ingredients to date. Up till now I've been using barley malt. Very nice results but not the same.
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My suggestion would be to use coriander in the scald, the bread comes out better this way. Also, I always double the amount of spices from what the original write-ups suggest. As to the authenticity, there are multiple published recipes, there could be as many as 20, although majority of them are minor modifications of the same original one. Each is authentic in its own way.
That is what I'll do. Yes, there are many different versions with slight variations out there.
Just done the starter build and now I'll add the coriander to the rye and crystal malt. Thanks for the quick reply and malt guidance.
Ground spices (coriander, aniseed, caraway seed) go into the scald, whole seeds - on top of the loaf prior to baking. To make them stick to the crust, the top of the loaf is brushed with scalded flour paste prior to baking and with scalded starch solution after baking.
That is the most common practice for all Russian rye breads with the scald step and spices in their recipe.
It's in the oven now and if I said it smelled delicious it would be an understatement. Gotta love these dark aromatic traditional rye breads. I didn't have starch to make a solution so it's not brushed. All the coriander went into the scald.
Will wait 24 hours after taking it out of the oven to cut into it. This will really test my willpower.
as part pf the bread spices with the anise, coriander and caraway. Coriander is Russian and the others are more German but I like them all in the mix. Most Borodinsky's are about 80 % rye and the rest Wheat so they aren't a total lead bomb and the spices are what gives these breads their great aroma.
Happy baking Abe
...without cutting into it.
I followed this recipe http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/37222/borodinsky-supreme-old-school-100-rye because I liked the look of it and the nice formula with method.
However I did take on board all the advice and doubled the amount of coriander spice and put it into the scald and not the final dough as in the recipe. Mine is 100% whole rye whereas the recipe above had some white rye (instead of wheat). I also missed out the added yeast in the final dough making mine 100% sourdough. Every stage performed very nicely. A very active starter, Pre-Ferment and the dough rose well.
I can always build on this if it's a success and certainly add in extra spices.
From what I can see in-between the small cracks on the top is that is has a good crumb (whether this is true for all the way through we will see).
Thank you Dabrownman.
Cut off a small end piece as I've made it too big to fit in my bread container. 2 hours out of the oven. Knife came out clean but still slightly warm and needs longer to cool. Taste is delicious! Best I've made to date. Thank you suave for all your input Suave and to Marian and Dabrownman for advice I can incorporate in my next bake.
Russian tradition never frowned at cutting your bread while it's still warm. Quite the opposite, actually.
PS. It appears you had the presence of mind to increase the amount of water from the preposterously low 60%. Good call!
Well I never new that. Everything went right with this bake. It is very nice slightly warm. I've had a second slice already. Couldn't help myself.
I almost missed the hydration bit. I planned to skip the yeast and just skip over it and what isn't clear in the recipe (actually missed out in the recipe) is the dissolving the yeast in some water. I just added that water, minus the yeast, back into the recipe.
I could never work a low hydration rye anyway.
Thanks Suave. Your advice is really appreciated.
That you accomplished that light and delightful crumb from 100% rye (and sliced in to while still warm, no less) speaks volumes about the strength of your starter and on your skill with judging the ferment well. That is truly a result to be proud of, and to thoroughly enjoy!
I was a bit surprised to discover that I actually prefer the flavours of the rye without any spices (especially not coriander - it just didn't seem to work for my preferences at all, and I've never been overly fond of caraway), so you might want to play with the spice amounts in future bakes to see what level seems best for you.
I hope that you post this as a blog with a full loaf pic --- this bake deserves to be shown off in full glory!
I am proud of this loaf and just enjoying a toasted slice with some cheddar cheese and a blue moon beer. What a great way to wind down after work.
Now I am beginning to get used to the method of this bread I will be playing around with the spices which I love. Do you prefer a sweeter rye with raisins/currants in it? If you do then I have just the recipe for you. It'll be like a fruit loaf.
I'm halfway through this loaf but I'm definitely doing a re-run soon with a blog in mind.
and I'm betting that luscious loaf is now long gone and I hope that you are on to the next iteration (complete with blog)!
One of the things that I love about making our own breads is that we get to play with the flours and methods and adders to always make each formula "our own" - and that means making it exactly to our own tastes. That you love the "bread spices" means that you get to make your rye loaves with the perfect level of them for you - and I'm betting that you'll be trying a different combination or different amounts each time for a while until you hit on "perfect".
For me - I just love the flavour and aroma of rye and the rye malts, and find that the spices overpower that. For a fruit loaf (which I did try one - 100% rye with a mix of apricot, prunes, figs, raisins, almonds, and peanuts) I did enjoy adding a little bit of spicing (some lemon zest, some caraway / coriander / fennel, and a wee toss of ginger just because) and I am really enjoying it. I have to admit, though, that the fruit and nuts and spices make me treat it as a "cake" instead of a "bread", but they each have their place in life. It is a cake, though, that works great with a slice of strong cheese and not some fiddly sweet icing!
I hope that you are having a great week, and have a happy plan in place for the next bake!