HarryGermany Rye Bread, Part II, This time for beginners

I am glad to hear that this time everything went well for you.  I don't know what dough dockers are, never heard of them, nor have I looked at Hamelman's book.  I did try this recipe again.  The first time, I made a boule and did not slash it and everything came out really well.   I baked it from a cold start too.  The second time, I made 1 1/2 times the recipe and made 1 boule and 2 batards.  I decided to slash all of them and did it before the final proof.  I read once that rye should be slashed right after shaping, so I thought I would try it.  The batards turned out fine, but the boule's slash grew immense as it baked and it even ripped some.  So next time, I will not be slashing the boule.  It really ruined it for using in sandwiches, but is still good for breakfast and soup.  I really like this bread and my husband says it taste like pumpernickle (I add a couple of tbsp. of caraway seeds), which is exactly what I have been wanting to do since starting all of this.  Whether it be cooking or baking, it all becomes a challenge to become more.  Always creating better, makes it very addicting.  Julia Childs once made a statement about eating (I don't remember the exact wording) but it was something about her never knowing how to eat until she was in her 30's, when she learned how to cook better.  Food should be more than just substance.   I don't eat for substance, I eat with pleasure, savoring my food.  The way you describe making bread, is how I am with all that I make to eat.   There are alot of people in this country that would think I am crazy, but spending several hours or even more in my kitchen is very relaxing and enjoyable to me.  I love to make food for people that enjoy it, but I do not like people at my table that don't know how to appreciate it.  Presentation is a big part of eating.  It is always like art.  And when things don't go well and you get a flop, it really can be depressing, especially with so much effort involved.  Practice, practice, practice.   Sometimes for me, if I could just see someone else do it once, then that makes all the difference for me.  Peter's new book on whole grains has some good instructional pictures and they have really helped me with my shaping.   As for standards, sometimes what others think is the only way, is not the way for you.  For instance, I don't like big holes in my bread, but most do and think they have failed if they don't have them.  For me, anything you put on the bread goes through the holes and makes a mess, but that's me.  I like having a tighter crumb, but soft.  I also don't like hard, crunchy crusts, which most do, so I am really not following standards.  And if I baked my breads as long as what I see in alot of bread pictures, no one here would eat them, because they would be considered burnt.  So, it's all in what you want, not what a book says it has to be.   Beginners just need more repetition, but eventually, "casually" will come yours and my way with making bread.   

Well, that is kinda difficult to answer because I took the easy way out when I put my dough into the refrigerator.  Shaping is not my forte. My bread is probably a little different than yours, because I used hard, red spring wheat with rye.  I didn't use any white flour.  I did use the ratio of rye to wheat that he said to, but I didn't use quite as much milk.   This is what I came up with when I tried to change his recipe into our measuring standards ( I might be off, but it worked for me):

3 cups rye

2/3 cup wheat 

buttermilk- the same as the flours ( I used a little less)

3 tsps. salt

2 1/4 tsp. yeast 

I know that you measure exact, but I don't, so these are close to my measurements.  The dough was very sticky and I tried to use the dough hook in my kitchen aid machine, but it didn't seem to want to pull the dough together and just spiraled around with a little dough in it, so I took it out and put it into a bowl and use a rubber spat to kinda knead it around for a while and then let it sit for a while, until I saw some rise.  Then I use the spat again to pull the sides over into the center, like folding.  I put it into to the refrigerator and folded it again before I went to bed.  In the morning, I took it out and rounded it and shaped it.  I was really impressed that I could free form it onto a sheet pan and it kept it's shape, when rising.  The crust came out just a little tough to need a good bread knife to cut it and the crumb was just right, not dry or tough.  The stickiness seems to get toned down some after a couple of folds in the bowl and then with being cold overnight.  I used some last night for garlic, chesse toasts to accompany soup and salad last night.   Good!  I hope I answered your question.  I might end up frustrating you though, because even though I bascially do follow a recipe and use measuring cups and spoons ( I don't use a scale and probably never will).  I might just add a little more of something or a little less of something as I go.  I pretty much never follow a recipe exact.  I always have to change something, because I have set standards as to what I eat.  Like I said before, I also don't usually follow other standards that are set down as guidelines, because my preferences are different than that, whether it be for health reasons or simple taste.  Which by the way is another thing, I usually never heat up my milk and I use raw milk, with all those healthy enzymes and bacterias, but I have not have had any problems with my doughs over it.  I knew going into this that I was taking the hard road, but I knew that one way or another, I was going to make this work. 

CountryBoy, I am very new to making bread, but not to cooking and general baking.  But I refuse to be rigid about it.  I may not get the exact results every time, but they are close enough and enjoyable.  The " tips" are what I strive to acquire.  These are what make anything a person does, easier or able to be done in a more favorable way.  The addition of honey sounds good, I also had considered it.  Since I don't use any white flour, and only whole grains, I generally add a good portion (beyond the usual 1 or 2 tbsp. of what most recipes call for) of honey or maple syrup to my doughs.  But I didn't to this rye and was surprised that it tasted so good.  I think the overnight fermentation really helps with the flavor as well.  As for confidence, it will come.  I definitely don't have the confidence that everytime I go to make bread, that it will come out exactly like I want it too.  It's about a 50-50 chance for me, but still, like I said before, the results are still tasty.  You will probably learn alot from your mistakes, so they are plus for you right now.  Some on this site(and I mean no disrespect in any way to any of them), approach bread making like doing a science project.  They analyze everything about it, like laboratory work.  Everyone has their own way of doing things, like I said before though, that doesn't mean it is written in stone and the only way.