October 22, 2016 - 8:02am
Bulk Fermentation and proofing
i know that this topic has been discussed endlessly, but I have a disconnect, still! So bear with me.
In at least two well-known bread books, the authors use the finger poke test to determine when Bulk fermentation is done (although in TFL forums many say there is no simple way to judge when bulks are done).
My question is: if I do use the finger poke to monitor bulk, e.g., slowly springs back partway, then how can one be sure the dough would still have enough resources to proof 1-3 hours? call me confused....
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...bulk fermentation? Somehow what is a fairly useful test for the end-stage of proofing before baking has got confused with judging when a dough is ready to be shaped and then proofed.
It takes a lot to exhaust yeast. Several fermentation cycles. So don't worry too much. And proofing is tricky, even with the finger-poke test. Many of us prefer to slightly under-proof anyway. That way you get the best oven spring, but it does take practice.
There is so much variation in fermentation between doughs that repetition until you understand a particular dough's characteristics is the key to success. Maybe the only test worth applying is to these bakery books you mention. If they don't say that it will take multiple bakes to come to terms with any new recipe then maybe they should be chucked in the bin.
Denny, I am no expert, but understand that yeast have very little ability to travel, so during bulk fermentation, they consume the nearby resources. When we shape, the yeast get redistributed , so they get additional resources. That said, I am not a big fan of the finger poke test, though it can be useful if you make the same loaf over and over and can get to tell what it looks and feels like at various stages of final proof. For bulk fermentation, I almost always use a straight sided container, and stop bulk fermentation when I hit a volume measurement - usually doubled in volume.
I wish there was a definitive way to determine the level of fermentation but I haven't found one yet. Here is the way I make my decision.
I rely on sight, smell and feel. My final mix, if doing it by hand, is to the "shaggy" stage. Most bakers would define this as a full incorporation of all the ingredients without any attempt at generating a gluten structure. It looks shaggy and I strive to insure that there aren't any remaining pockets of raw flour. At this point I put it into a covered tub and generally leave it alone for an hour or so. I then start my stretch and fold techniques and the first one is quite messy. Even with a 65% hydration the dough is pretty goopy and sticks to my hands and the work surface. Getting it out of my mixing tub requires a lot of handling and scraping, and getting back into the tub is a challenge.
An hour later I do the same thing but this time the dough looks smoother and begins to take on a pleasant odor. It is easier to get out of the tub and makes less of a mess while handling. The stretch and fold could actually be considered a real stretch and fold at this point, and the dough is easier to get back into the tub.
An hour later I do it again and this time the dough has a nice sheen, smells wonderful and is beginning to show bubbles on the surface. The dough comes out of the tub easily and leaves very little (if any) remains on my hands and the mixing surface. Stretch and folds are textbook and the dough forms nicely for its return trip to the bin. At this stage I begin resting the dough for the next phase - dividing.
Again, sight, smell and feel. All this is done at a room temperature of around 70 - 75F and the dough is generally around the same temperature. Cooler surrounds will require longer wait times and vice versa for warmer temps.
The way I developed my technique was through a lot of reading, practicing, a few nice loaves and a lot of very ugly ones. I am now confident that I can accurately judge the phase of development and rarely fail to move the fermented dough to the next stage at the wrong time.
I hope this helps you in some way.
Jim
bread proofed on the counter but when I use it and it says I'm ready - it is already over proofed. For whole grain breads and retarded ones it is nearly worthless from my experience so I don't use it
(especially the Italian ones) are bulk fermented, pre-shaped then shaped just before they are baked.
Bread relies on oven spring more than anything. So depending on the extent of how much yeast activity is completed before baking you will increase or decrease the final proofing.
These traditional Italian methods did go against a lot of my understanding of how bread should be baked but if you understand that all the yeast is there to do is make gas bubbles and your dough is ready when it is most saturated but before they lose strength (not necessarily the height of the dough) then oven spring takes care of the rest.
Going by feel is a good way. Is your dough airated, billow and does it feel elastic? Then bulk ferment is done. But that doesn't mean the yeasts have been utilised to the max which is what makes great bread. So then you shape and proof again. This gives your bread a nice shape (obviously) and more time.
I think many Italian breads are taken to the limits of the yeasts capability in the bulk ferment hence the pre shape and short bench rest then a shape and no final proof.
There's no need to knock out all the gas the yeasts have worked so hard to put into the dough. Knock out the big ones for a more even crumb and enough to work with then shape and proof again till optimum time when best to bake.
I use a syringe and measure the gas output. No more ambiguity!
Carry on with your fingerpoke methods!
I'm also interested in knowing more about the syringe! Supposedly, the scissors are some kind of blunt device that hold the syringe in place, and when the CO2 is created it also goes into the syringe and pushes the mobile bit upwards.
This photo shows more of the syringe and clamp. What you think are scissors is actually a hemostat. It's just a way to close the open end, so when the gas expands the dough, it pushes the plunger.
The syringe is an oral syringe, however, there is another design that has a thread, and there are locking caps available. That design with a cap may be preferable. The oral syringe requires a plastic hose for the clamp.
I stick the syringe in the dough so the small mass of syringe dough remains the same temperature as the larger mass of bulk dough.
Thanks for the photo. I googled it and your blog came up, it seems! http://kenklaser.gaiastream.com/2013/04/17/bread-making-using-a-syringe-to-measure-doug-proofin-height/
Thanks everybody. Everything is clear now; a very ingenious method from Kenlklaser - as is the oven steam injector in the link!
I am wondering though if the syringe method is really any different to the one where you put a small piece of dough in a graduated straight sided clear glass or plastic cylinder, flatten the top and monitor the volume increase?
Lance
The syringe is a graduated, straight-sided plastic cylinder. The front edge of the plunger draws a distinct line on the cylinder, so you don't have to adjust your gaze to be perpendicular to the cylinder to read it. I typically pack the 3 mL syringe with 1 mL dough, however, that doesn't allow enough expansion for intentionally over-fermented pre-ferments, so sometimes I'll pack it to 0.5 mL. But the math is slightly easier with 1 mL of packed dough.
I've wondered about having a special one manufactured, as improvements could be made to the tool (such as the index being printed on the plunger instead of the cylinder, which would be helpful to take readings while syringe is submerged in dough), and but syringes are reasonably inexpensive.
Some syringes have painted or inked graduations on the cylinder, which will wear off after a few uses. Mine are "Monoject" brand and they have an embossed index which doesn't wear off, and I've been using them for several years now without any need for replacement.
Thanks everybody for your useful comments! I will keep refining and plugging away.
Kenlklaser, how does your gas output test work?
Lance
Sorry I didn't see your comment, email notifications only seem to work if you reply to my message. Scroll up.
Food Anorak, I think you are right about the scissors being blunt. I reckon they may well be forceps.