June 3, 2016 - 5:39pm
First Loaf Recipe Request
Hello,
First of all, thank you for contributing and making this site the wonderful resource that it is.
Second, I am looking to end my dependance on grocery stores for bread. As I am fairly nutrionally mindful, I figured I would skip the white bread first loaf. I am nes to baking bread but not a stranger to the kitchen.
With this in mind, could somebody suggest an easily reproducable, multigrain bread for me to make every week or two? I have all purpose, whole wheat, and pumpernickle flour on hand at the moment. However, I expect you know best, and I will gladly hear your opinions on where I should start.
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chose your favorites. Use 75% for the hydration. Take 15% of the flour and water and put a pinch of yeast in it and let it ferment overnight to make a nice poolish and develop some flavor. Autolyse the flour and dough water for 1 hour with the 2% salt sprinkled on top and then add the poolish and mix it all together. Develop the gluten with 30 slap and folds and then 8 twice - all 20 minutes apart. Then do 3 sets of stretch and folds of 4 each alao on 20 minute intervals, The pan it up and let it rise.. Bake at 450 with steam for 12 minutes and then turn down to 425 and bake till it is 205 F on the inside. Easy as pie. and a great bread.
this sounds like what i have been asking you. helpful to see
I cant figure out the math I am sorry. I feel like i keep asking but i havent got the recipe yet. Even one to try so i can stop buying the white sourdough we are eating now. This sounds easy. You know my pan right? I try to explain but some people have their own way of math so I am more confused and I dont want to be wrong.
If I do----- 1/2 AP and try 1/2 hard white or red
Or 1/2 AP and 1/2 Rye
Or 1/2 AP and 1/2 Spelt -----
Is the recipe and methods all the same? Maybe not for spelt? I just tried the no knead spelt one so thats really great and easy if it works out for us. I am so curious why it can have no kneading and easy starter maintenence. Maybe its unique.
I will follow your methods . I need correct flour amounts and water, salt, & levain. I am sorry to ask so much but I have to ask for help.
but don't blame me if I got it wrong. Ha ha!
You will need:
100 g of 100% starter (50 grams of flour + 50 grams water) that has risen nicely (fed 8 to 12 hours prior depending on how active your starter is)
230 g of all purpose or bread flour
200 g of spelt flour (if you use rye or some other flour that sucks up tons of water, you will need to add 10 or so grams more of water to the dough)
310 g of water
9 g salt
Follow DAB's method above and you should be pretty happy with your loaf (skip the poolish part since you are using sourdough) Start at the autolyse part and replace the poolish by the starter. By the way, I based my measurements on the post below that stated that your pullman loaf will hold 830-850 g of dough. Since you want to do some whole grain, I picked 840 g as a weight.
Hope this helps!
I have seen this reference in other formulas too. Can anyone explain the benefit of "sprinkle on top" over incorporation with the other ingredients for the autolyse?
Salt "stops" the autolyse, which is why it is added later. Here, I think they are adding the salt on top during the autolyse because it makes the salt easier to incorporate - it'll start to dissolve, but does not makes its way into the dough. That's actually a pretty neat idea. I mix salt in during the slap-n-folds, and it gets everywhere.
Autolyse is done without salt,. You can wait till after autolyse is done to add and mix in the salt, but you run the risk that you will forget to add the salt. Sprinkle on top solves both. Another option is to measure out the salt, and put it in a small container and keep it next to the dough so you don't forget
Hehe
I understand you don't want to start with a plain all-AP loaf. That's what I normally suggest to first-timers, but if you're really unwilling, then keep it as basic as possible. I quite often make a loaf with 76% AP or BF, 16% WW and 8% dark rye. You can play with the latter two numbers, but for a first loaf, I wouldn't go higher than about 25% total. In addition, if you keep the hydration down to say 65%, the dough will be one that a newbie should be able to handle.
Also in the KISS vein, I wouldn't worry about things like autolyse or slap and fold right now. If you get into baking even weekly, you'll get to methods like those soon enough. And neither is necessary to make a good first loaf.
I didnt want to ask but ia am going to be brave. first, I asked so much of dabrownman and i keep changing things, trying to suceed. i cannot do the math. now i see method info and tips. i do wonder what you might suggest instead of slap and fold though. because something must be done right? my pan holds 2024g of water. i want to try your suggestion of 76%AP and 16%hard white or red wheat (WW-correct?) and 8%rye. is it a sourdough? ?? can you ,or someone, advise the recipe for me? how much grams this will translate to for starter, flour and water, salt? also how much for the levain build? i have dabrownmans NMNF starter so i will need to add the flour to that and then the rest of the flour when i add the levain to the remaining flour and water.
the amount of dough that fits in your pan always depends on how much you expect it to proof.
for a 50% whole grain bread of any kind I use 85% except for rye which will rise not as much and for rye I use 75%. I assume that the hydration will always be 75% for a loaf like this - even for rye and that the other 50% will be bread flour.
For example I will use a non rye while grain version at 85% expected rise. Since your pan holds 2024 g of water just divide that number by 1.85 and you get 1094 g of dough to fill it properly. When the center rises 1/2 to 1" above the rim in the middle in the oven it goes.
Since this recipe is for 75% hydration you take the dough amount required to fill the pan, in this case 1094 g and divide by 1.75 (1 for the 100% flour and .75 for the 75% water) and you get 625 g of flour and 1094-625 = 469 g of water. These are totals fir flour and water. Half the flour is whole grain and half is bread flour or 312.5 g each.
Now you have ti figure out the levain. I would use 15% pre-fermented flour for the levain. So 625 g of total flour times ,15 (for 15%) = 94 g of flour in the levain. I would make a 100% hydration levain of equal amounts of flour levain & water so 94 g of water too. I would use whole grain flour for the levain so, 313g of whole grain flour - 94 = 219 of whole grain left over for the dough flour and 469 - 94 = 375 g of dough water. Now you have the whole recipe.
Levain 20 g of NMNF starter 94 g of water and 94 g o whole grain flour - just mix and let stand for 10-12 hours stiring at 3 and 6 hour marks and when it doubles sfter the 2nd stirring it is ready
Dough is all if the levain plus 219 g of whole grain flour plus 312 g if bread flour and 12 g if salt (625 * .02 = 12.5 g)
Happy whole grain SD baking
All makes good sense. I am working with a Team USA formula that places salt, yeast and malt on top of the autolyse and I cannot see any difference other than getting it into the bowl sooner than later.
Personally, using Kosher salt, I prefer to dissolve it in a small amount of the hydration water before adding it to the other ingredients, after the levain, poolish and autolyse. When using straight salt crystals I have had pockets of salt appear in a bite of bread due to poor mixing. This seems to solve the problem and is another reason why I cannot "sprinkle" the dissolved mixture on top of the autolyse.
reasons. It cures every mental illness known to man except one. I put it it on top because I want it to dissolve and soften without incorporating it and I don't want to forget it because....the one mental illness PHSS doesn't cure is forgetfulness:-)
i think things thru a lot, and i wonder with my own new bread making efforts, how to decode everyones tips. some say no more than 65%hyration but that is with 75%AP flour. and then there is 50% whole grain with a different hyration. is the handeling of the dough such a difference that more attention without the hands on experience can change things so much when trying to have the bread come out bread-like? does that make sense? i have my own recipe questions i am trying to find out, i see the tips but i wish to find someone using the same size pan as my pullman 9" pan to see the math for options. then i will not need to ask so much! i learn so much from others. thank you all
I kinda followed your recipe as well as another one on the bag of rye flour. It was roughly 1/2 a cup of AP (all I had left) 1cup of whole wheat, and 2 cups of rye. I let it rise for like 20 hours in the basement. I must've covered it well because it didnt dry out at all and turned out way better than I expected. Beginners luck I guess. Next time I wont take as many risks haha.
Picture: http://imgur.com/5quhDSW