Crumb Help!
Hi everyone!
I've finally fixed the gummy dough issue-- the crust was hardening too fast in the oven, which was preventing the inside of the dough from cooking all the way. Now,I spray the loaf with a lot of water before putting it into the oven, and I add ice cubes in a hot cast iron pan for steam.
The bread is pretty good, and now I want to make it perfect. One thing I'd really like to change is the crumb structure. I get a lot of big holes, but the dough in between the holes is still a bit dense.
You can especially see it in the last picture. I want to create a crumb that's pretty open throughout the dough, with a good network of holes.
Here are the ingredients:
25g sourdough starter
250g bread flour
175g warm, filtered water
5g salt
I mix the starter, flour, and water together, let it autolyze for 30-45 minutes, then knead in the salt for about 10 minutes. I let it rise for about 11 hours overnight. Our room temperature is probably about 72F. I then shape the bread, let it rise for about an hour or two, then put it in the fridge for another two hours. I preheat the oven to 500F with the baking stone and cast iron pan for an hour, then reduce to 400, slash the bread, and put it in the oven with the ice cubes for about 45 minutes, and let it cool for 2-3 hours before cutting into it.
How can I get a more open crumb structure in between the big holes?
Thanks for all of your help!
Mariana
Your hydration is only about 67%, Make it about 75%. Bake until the interior temperature is 195+°F (91+°C).
I was never a fan of putting ice cubes in a cast iron pan. I put boiling water in a roasting pan for the first 15 minutes. Why add ice to water you want to boil?
Ford
Hiya,
I will try using a roasting pan and boiling water instead. Thanks for your help!
Up the hydration and ditch the misting and the ice cubs. Use 2 of Sylvias's Steaming trays half full of water and kitchen towel rolled up inside each and a tray half full of water with lava rocks covering the bottom. This makes Mega Steam rather than Puny Steam.
Put the trays in the bottom of the oven with the stone on the next rack level above them. Put them in when the oven beeps saying it hut 500 F and let them start to steam for 15 minutes. The stone is 15 minutes behind the oven temperature anyway so no wasted time or energy,
Do not put your face anywhere near the door when you open it to slide the bread on the stone. Close the door and turn the oven down to 450 F.
This is a very small bread weight wise so 8 - 10 minutes of steam will be fine. then remove the steam and turn the oven down to 425 F convection this time if you have it - and bake to 205 F or 96 C on the inside.
Happy baking
The other wasy to do it if you have an oval roaster for a bread this shape. Jsut preheat the bottom of the roaster and then overturn it over the bread on teh stone and bake lile a cloche. Both will give you the best spring and holes.
Hi,
I am not sure what "Sylvia's Steaming Trays" are, and I don't have lava rocks, but I will try using a roaster and the baking stone like a cloche :)
so if a crumb looks like this, and it's a bit heavy, it indicates underbaking?
just checking...
Hi, I don't think it's undercooked. When I measure the internal temperature of the bread, it reads about 210F, which means it should be fully baked, correct?
Are you sure you're not over proofing. Might be proofed in those two hours you leave it at room temperature then you refrigerate for a further two hours and don't forget it carries on proofing in the fridge for a while.
I could very well be overproofing. I think I'm going to try proofing less. Is it better if I shorten the bulk rise or the final proofing after shaping?
Then you need to shorten the final proofing. With bulk fermentation you have more time to play with. In this stage you are developing the gluten, giving the yeast/bacteria time to multiply and do its job and developing flavour. If you do bulk fermentation too long then you'll get gluten breakdown and the dough will turn to mush. Clearly that's not happening here. And it will take quite sometime for this to happen.
Where you have to get the timing just right is after shaping and final proofing. When in doubt it is better to under proof than over proof. It is a common belief that one should leave it till it doubles at this stage. But better to allow it to final proof till it's 1.5x. I think it had fully proofed in those two hours before you put it into the fridge then it carried on in the fridge. If i'm refrigerating I generally do it to develop flavour and to fit my schedule. So i'll shape, leave it out at room temperature for 40min - 1hr then refrigerate till i'm ready to bake (sometimes overnight).
i'm terrible and judging when it's just right so I err with caution. But I do know how to get it into the ball park. And with a little trial and error I seem to be doing ok. But I do think that you need to refine this final proofing stage.
71% hydration. which should produce nice open holes.
You are baking at quite a high temperature so your bread might form a crust too quickly, if not introducing enough steam, and will inhibit oven spring.
I have a problem getting steam into my oven. Why don't you pre-heat your oven to 482 farenheit (sorry but I work in Celsius which is a whole number = 250 Celsius)
Then turn down to 410 farenheit (210 Celsius) when putting your dough in the oven. And bake for around 35min or until crust is golden brown. If you oven is fan assisted then will benefit from baking at a lower temperature. Mine is and I can even go down to 374 farenheit (190 Celsius).
Try to get some steam into your oven and if you can't then spraying the top of the dough before putting it in the oven will help. And you can spray it again after 10 - 15 min. Just to make sure it's not crusting over too quickly and stopping oven spring.
We are all making tiny tweaks here and you will have to decide your own. I think it's a shaping thing.
Where you write in the process, "...I then shape the bread, let it rise for about an hour or two, then put it in the fridge for another two hours."
I would be folding the dough during this doing some folds about every 45 min. Easy folds but enough to pop the giant bubbles and get the smaller ones time enough to collect gas. I would not stick it back into the fridge.
Another approach would be to speed up the starter (increase yeast population) so you can retard sooner like previously suggested.
How did the dough look after 12 hrs overnight? Was it still rising? Did it ferment a good deal or was it domed and perky looking? Repeat what you did and this time after the overnight bulking, Cut into the dough, slice it in half with a sharp knife and look at the bubble structure inside the dough. If it looks like your Ideal and smells strongly fermented, it had over-proofed already. If the bubbles are quite small and the fermenting aromas quite weak, then the overall fermenting time needs to be lengthened.
It is important to notice when the gas is developing in the dough. Don't be afraid to cut it open and look. Best way to learn! ...And a lot of fun slapping it back together.
Folding the dough while gas is increasing helps with the overall "look" and structure of the crumb. I almost get the impression you were afraid to degas too much in shaping. Hence the ultra large bubbles of weird shapes following a very simple folding and lots of tiny crumb bubbles. I think the dough was shaped too early in the process and a few more folds were needed during the bulk rise to break super large bubbles and tighten up the Dough "skin" before the final shaping. Aim for about the same baking time. The folding (instead of previous shaping) and more additional folds should speed up fermentation by redistributing food and add that little amount of "more fermentation" that you think it needs.
Mini
Hi everyone, I'm going to play around with rising times and steam for a while to see if that helps.
Just curious, why do we bake bread at a higher temperature for the beginning of the bake then lower it for the rest of the bake?
compensates for the heat that escapes while loading the bread and steaming the oven. Preheating to a higher temperature also helps with oven spring, because the stone holds more energy to impart to the dough (and keeps the temperature of the oven from falling even further). Finishing the bake at a lower temperature lets the loaf dry sufficiently without overbrowning.