The Fresh Loaf

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Over or under proofed?

Matt Edy's picture
Matt Edy

Over or under proofed?

Hi guys... Currently trying to develop some sourdoughs for the bakery I'm working at, seem to be having a few issues with the final product. So here's the problems... I'm using a 100% hydration starter that consists of half white half light rye. I'm making a white poolish/sponge thats 30% prefermented flour containing around about 13% of the mature culture. This is fermenting and ripening in 12 hours, so all good so far. I'm making the white dough up at 70% hydration, at temp of around 24c to 25c, allowing a 2 1/2 hour bulk, with two S/F at 50 minute intervals. Shaping, then allowing a final proof in the proofer for 2 hours. I'm finding that when I tip the dough out it spreads/ doesn't hold it's shape, and I awkward to slash. Anyways into the oven it starts flattish, but then springs up after 5-10 minutes of baking... Here's a few pics. Any feedback would be much appreciated. I'm thinking too much bulk, but not sure. Cheers

Ford's picture
Ford

Your final product looks great.  I am thinking that the hydration is a little high and the loaf is on the verge of being over proofed.

Try the two finger indentation test for proofing.  Lightly push in the dough with two fingers (slightly spread apart).  If the indentation immediately springs back the loaf is under proofed, if it slowly comes back it is ready, it it does not spring back then it is over proofed.

I also suggest adding a little less water to the dough,

Ford

tchism's picture
tchism

If 70% is your final hydration then your slightly high than my usual hydration of 67%. I agree with Ford on the over proofing. I would cut back 30 min on the final proof and see what that does for you. Also consider if you are putting enough surface tension on the loaf during forming.

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

I think it looks good, too. 

Two thoughts: I agree that if you're using all white flour (except a little rye in the poolish), 70% percent may be a little high. 

Also, I've become more of a fan of doing a retarded final proof. I used to have trouble with spreading, but chilled doughs don't do that as much. I don't know how that would fit into your production schedule; you'd probably need to adjust a bunch of things to accommodate that change, but it might be a worthwhile experiment. Maybe you could do a small test batch to try out the timing and see if you like the results. 

bikeprof's picture
bikeprof

I wouldn't change the hydration unless you are really set on a round loaf profile (but with a less open crumb).

That crumb certainly doesn't look underproofed to me, so do work on your proof poking.

I'd first try some additional folds, along with a bit less proofing.  The folds with help build a bit more strength, and help even out the distribution of gases (i.e. the BIG bubbles).  That along with a bit less proofing should help with the loaf profile.

Nice work!

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

at 100% hydration and 70% of the dough at 70% that would give you about 79% hydration overall which is a little high for this kind of white bread. I like to be around 72% to 75% or so.  It looks like the dough is proofed fine with the great spring and crumb that you got.   Another thing you could do is to refrigerate the dough for 30 -45 minutes before you tip it out for scoring .  That might not mess up your schedule too much.  I would add another S & F too and do themon 30 minute intervals so you arenlt adding any time to that process

Happy experimenting

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Matt,

I think your fermentation process is too long, hence why you are struggling to manage when you load to the oven.   I am a little confused by your terminology.   A poolish and a sponge generally use bakers' yeast.   True sourdough breads are raised only with natural levain culture; bakers yeast is forbidden.   Can you clarify this please?

If it helps, I use levain @ 60% hydration and 25% pre-fermented flour in the final dough.   My leaven has a minimum of 2 feeds, and is ready to use in just 3 hours after the final feed.   Do you want to make your bread sour?   I seek to make the product only with natural levain, but I don't want a sour taste in the finished bread.

So, you've moved on; hearty congratulations!

Best wishes

Andy

Matt Edy's picture
Matt Edy

Andy,

the recipe I've been following is from the weekend bakery website....

The leaven is referred to as a poolish?

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/sourdough-pain-naturel/

 

Matt Edy's picture
Matt Edy

Thanks guys... Some good points made and noted. My shaping seems to be fine, getting plenty of surface tension. Should I expect the loaf to spread a little after emptying out of the baskets at this hydration? I'm more set in my mind that as Andy has picked out that my fermentation process is too long, but the baked loaf is bursting at the sides, at the the bottom, would that not suggest an under proofed loaf? I've tried another batch this evening, keeping everything the same except the fermentation times, just 2 hours bulk and 1 1/2 hour proof, still got pretty much the same loaf as before :-/

Many thanks.