High rye levain loaves
This is a follow-up bake to my 90% hydration ciabatta minis using different levain proportions. From that experiment I became more confident of using up to 50% rye levain in my dough, so I decided to apply it to this bake.
The goal is an everyday family loaf that has 1) good flavour; 2) extremely subdued sour tang; 3) is not too dense; 4) does not require much mixing; and 5) has most of the whole grains in the pre-ferment for easier digestion (husband suffers).
I made two loaves, one with 40% rye levain in the final dough, and the other with 50%. The measurements for the 50% loaf are:
Levain: 245g
Rye starter: 35g; Rye flour: 105g; Water: 105g
Final dough: 500g
Rye levain: 245g; Bread flour: 152g; Water: 100g; Salt: 3g
Total hydration of the dough, accounting for the levain, is 78%. % of rye/total flour is 40%.
Mixed the ingredients together in the morning and just left it to do its thing. Bulk fermentation to 50% took 4.5 hours at room temp 22C. After shaping, it rested for an hour before it was baked at 220C for 35 mins.
Verdict
Good. Both are keepers. The 40% levain actually did not taste sour at all and had a really fragrant profile. The 50% had a more pronounced character and was only very mildly sour.
Lovely aroma; husband says: "This bread smells like beer." Did not expect the children to eat it, but our 2 year old polished off one slice (extracted the walnuts, though).
I don't know if I will pursue an even higher rye levain loaf. This works for what I wanted. I might incorporate a soaker to to enhance the flavour profile.
I'm experimenting with the same recipe for my red wholegrain spelt. Yesterday was a flop; the dough did not behave. I shall try again.
Picture on left (top): 50% crumb. Picture on right (bottom): 40% crumb.
Comments
Wow! Magnificent!
My go-to deli rye (adapted from Ilya's great recipe) is one where all the rye flour -- 45% of the total flour -- is prefermented in a levain. I've gotten lofty oven spring and a light, open crumb -- but never the kind of expansion you have achieved.
Amazing. Congrats!
Rob
Thanks, Rob, very kind of you to say. I think this one expanded quite a bit because I used medium rye flour - 10g protein, 14g fibre, not sure of the ash content - instead of the wholegrain.
Your rye loaves look amazing - I must say the choclate rye loaf is very tempting indeed. (Not so sure about caraway!)
I had a feeling you were using medium rye. Something about those holes!
The chocolate rye is like a super decadent pumpernickel. And the easy way to deal with fear of caraway is to leave it out. I grew up with it, but I know it's an accquired taste.
If you want to push the rye envelope, I'd make a case for the bread known here as 'Hansjoakim's favorite 70% rye' & for the Berliner Landbrot posted on The Rye Baker site. Both of them are straightforward and delicious.
Rob
Hansjoakim's favourite 70% rye is surely on my to-bake list. Looks excellent, and indeed a relatively straightforward bake.
Have you noticed a big difference - in terms of taste, crumb/crust and dough handling - between apportioning most of the rye flour in the sour/levain compared to in the main dough, keeping total fermentations times relatively equal? Say if 40% of the total flour was rye and 60% white; one loaf had all of that in a levain (say a 8-hour rise) and all white in the main dough resulting in a quick bulk fermentation (2 hours?), and another loaf had all the rye flour in the main dough, but with a low proportion of a white levain/starter used (say 8%), resulting in a long bulk fermentation (10 hours?).
Intuition tells me that the high rye levain loaf would be easier to handle - perhaps because the gluten in the white is less degraded (?) - but I wonder if the taste and crumb would differ greatly. Maybe I could benefit from your experience before I plunge into experimenting.
-Lin
Great question, Lin. Problem is, with the rye breads I really enjoy, I haven't spent much time playing around with the recipes -- because they're so good just as they are.
I have adjusted Ilya's deli rye recipe quite a bit -- mostly because I kept wanting more rye in it and to avoid having to fake up a 'first clear' flour (Ilya uses Swiss ruchmehl, which is a reasonable approximation.) When I first baked it, his concept of fermenting all the rye flour up front seemed incredibly intuitive. Indeed, the recipe seemed foolproof. I could let the levain go 8 hours or 20 and push the rye flour to 45% of total flour. No matter: the final dough mixed up and handled excellently. Bulk fermentation and proofing were a breeze.
Then, for a while, my loaves started to look less good (though they still tasted great). I could feel the problem in my hands: slacker, stickier dough, which led to more spread, less oven spring, and a denser crust. It took a while for me to realize what was going on: an amylase attack, which I surmise came down to 2 factors: 1. I was baking less but still using starter straight from the fridge without refreshing it and my starter had gotten higher in acid and less yeasty & 2. the company whose rye flour I was buying was suddenly milling it a little finer, which meant fermentation was happening quicker. These two factors combined messed everything up and I'm still in recovery.
Still, you've sparked me to want to try some experiments with larger rye levains in other high-rye recipes.
Rob
When it comes to Hans Joakim's lovely recipe, did want to say that it does involve some 'rye technique', as it is at 70% rye.
When I say rye technique I mean:
yes, high-ryes handle differently than wheat breads. For instance, I've come to the conclusion that rye flour would work better in 'wheat paste' than wheat and a thin layer of dough will always attach itself to your hands as you shape it and will resist releasing, whether rubbing your hands in dry flour or scrubbing in cold water & strong soap.
That being said, I used whole rye flour in my first attempt at hansjoakim's great formula and I recall the dough forming a reasonably workable boule. I didn't dock it but simply let it rip on its own and got this (it was my first bake in my brother in law's Anova -- an oven that, in my experience, produces instagram-worthy ryes as long as you're baking one at a time.)
image2(1).JPEG
Also, in my tradition, waiting 24 hours is one of those rules that are destined to be broken. I'm an impatient baker. Sure the crumb will not have completely set and the flavor will not have fully developed, but when a bread comes out smelling like this one did, how can you legislate against ripping into it right away?
Rob
That's a gorgeous looking bread Rob, worth breaking some rules!
Superb Lin.
Well done, these look amazing, and the walnuts are a great addition too. Like the rustic exterior too.
-Jon
Very kind of you. Indeed, they did turn out very rustic looking. Love adding walnuts to most of my loaves - I find them very tasty and yet complementary to most of what I put on bread (cheese, jam, butter, chocolate spread).
-Lin