December 29, 2022 - 11:58am
Cooling/Resting Rye & Wheat Sourdoughs
A quick search showed that this topic comes up every so often. But all the posts I have seen that mention rye don't distinguish between medium/whole/dark/pumpernickel. And most don't distinguish between the percentage of rye in the bread. Or why Reinhart says that Poilane miches are better after 3 days.
So:
- How long should wheat flour sourdough breads cool/rest? Does any whole wheat % require/improve with more cooling time?
- Why do the big sourdough miches need 24+ hrs (per Hamelman/Reinhart)?
- Which rye breads need more than the usual ~2 hr cooling/resting, ie, 24-48 hrs?
- - Rye % > 50%?
- - Medium rye?
- - Dark/whole rye?
Thanks
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It's all up to you, there is no strict rule. The darker and the more rye is in the bread, and the bigger the bread is, the more of an effect you'll see from letting it rest, and the more important it is.
I'm not sure the exact reason and mechanism is really known (or at least not to me), but it surely has something to do with equilibration of the water content across the loaf... And probably something else, like equilibration of acids too, or changes in the starch structure...
I have been baking a regular sandwich loaf every other week for a few months now which consists of 40% dark rye and 60% WW and 100% hydration and for me it tastes best eaten fresh on the same day. Being a one-person household most of my breads would last several days and I believe none of my breads would taste better than fresh after a few hours out of the oven.
40% dark rye and 60% whole wheat sounds really tasty. You said sandwich loaf, which I assume implies a loaf pan. Any freestanding loaf like that especially with 100% hydration would just pancake.
Would you please post your recipe?
Thanks
Yes, it is a pan loaf. I have never tried it as a free-standing loaf so I don't know for sure, but I bet it wouldn't be a pancake loaf if I did. The WW flour from KA seems to be very thirsty and have a lot of structure in developing the dough so a 100% hydration does sound very high, but it does not feel any worse than a 75-80% hydration white flour loaf to me. Obviously, the 40% dark rye adds a lot of stickiness to the dough, but I am used to handling it.
I don't feel like publishing anything at the moment but here is my recipe since you ask.
60% WW from KA
40% dark rye from Bob's Red
40% 1% fat milk
29% whole egg
15% sourwort
8% honey
8% walnut oil
1.5% instant yeast
Mix everything together and let it "autorest" for about 1 hour
Knead it for about 5 min and rest for 30 min
Laminate fold it and then drop it into the pan
Proof it until the dough touches the cover of the pan
Bake it at 325-degree F in convection mode for 45-50 min with a steaming pan next to it the whole time
Cool it for several hours and then eat it as much as I can
That sounds really rich and tasty - milk, egg, honey, and oil!. Is there any water or does all the hydration come from the milk - egg - honey - oil?
The only source of "water" would be from the sourwort and my wet hands as I would wet my hands every time I touch the dough. FYI, this happens to be an enriched recipe that I have worked with in recent months as I have baked many lean breads with just plain water using 40-60% dark rye before. I did post a 50% dark rye baguette bake in this year's community bake hosted by Abe. Anyhow, I did not mean to hijack your post with my pan loaf discussion, but I had to mention it to make a point. The bottom line is I like the taste of fresh bread more than any bread that is more than a day old but that is just me. Good luck with your quest on this topic.
There is no doubt in my mind that ryes are the best on the first day, 100% rye in particular. Back in the old days if a 100% rye was fresh from the bakery we'd always get a whole loaf, because it was so good right there and then, and if it was from the day before - a half or a quarter. Later on, when mixed ryes became common we'd only take 100% rye if it was still warm.
Like many questions the answer to this one is: it depends.
My wife LOVES fresh bread, cut while it is still warm. But There are a few rye breads that she complains aren’t completely cooked when she eats them that way. I’ve learned to bake those when she is not around, since they are some of our favorite breads after waiting a few hours for them to completely cool, and even more flavorful the next day.
Here is a loaf I baked this morning and eat some for lunch. Caroline's butter pan lubrication trick was ingenious as the butter infused crust would have most bread lovers die for. I did screw up a couple of things with this bake, but it did turn out okay. The crumb could have been more open though, only if I learn how to be consistent from bake to bake.
Looks great
as an impatient baker & eater, I've noticed large flavor changes in high %age ryes the more they sit. For instance, I've made isand66's fantastic sweet potato cider rye (approx 40% rye) many times and have experienced how the complex of flavors balance & deepen if bread rests 24 hours after being baked. I've found the same for 90% rye Berliner Landbrot and many 100% ryes. But that doesn't mean I'll stop cutting in when they're warm. Maybe the best thing to do is to keep sampling at various temperatures -- giving a true appreciation of the mystery of it all.
Rob
Thank you for your flas recipe and it is whole grain too!