July 19, 2022 - 11:36am
Acidic Liquid for Whole Grain Rye Bread
In a recent post, I learned that if I want to use yeast instead of sourdough in a whole grain rye I should replace the water with whey or buttermilk to ensure the acidity that is needed. Is there another acidic liquid I could use besides those two?
Thanks for any suggestions.
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Beer, especially sour beer, non-alcoholic or with low abv% , would be a good alternative.
The sourness of beers ranges wildly, so some beers with pH around 5 might be not sour enough for rye bread baking. You need ph between 3 and 4.
Ask in a beer store specifically for the color and other parameters of the beer that you want. Berliner Weisse would be perfect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_beer
Another cheap alternative to sour whey is to soak commercially baked yeasted bread, even Wonderbread would do, and use that soaking water.
Usually, every household that buys breads and plain rolls has leftovers, bread loaf heels, dried out wrinkled rolls, etc. You can accumulate that old bread in your freezer and let it soak overnight or up to 24hours in a warm place (at 30-40C), pouring some hot or boiling water over it, then drain using a sieve. This soaking liquid will have pH of 4, sour enough to use in rye bread baking.
We have nonalcoholic beer in the house and I have a pH meter so will test it next time one is opened. I did just test a can of hard cider that was open and it measured 3.3 which is in your suggested range. Any reason that wouldn't work? Otherwise, I'll look for the sour beers you suggest. For the soaked bread option, any reason I can't soak sourdough bread? The person I'm going to mentor has no problem with sourdough it's just that as a novice baker she doesn't want maintain a starter yet and deal with associated variables.
Sure, Sonia, you can soak sourdough bread leftovers as well if you have them. It is generally more expensive than yeasted breads in stores, that is why I haven't mentioned it.
Homemade yeasted breads won't work as well to produce sour soaks because they are not as thoroughly fermented as their commercial counterparts, while in commercial setting their doughs always have some degree of lactic acid fermentation going, whereas homemade bread's pH is not as high.
I was thinking about cider as well. It is rich in lactic acid which is a huge plus, it might work if its alcohol content is not too high so it won't inhibit yeast in your bread dough (although you could give it a quick 20-30 sec long boil, microwave it, and it will evaporate) and you don't mind fruity flavors in your breads.
Kombucha would be a possible vegan alternative as well. Its pH is just right, in 3.0-3.3range.
Why you don't wish to use whey or buttermilk?
Two reasons: it would take quite a bit of yogurt to drain to get 500g of sour whey. As for buttermilk, I'm afraid the thick cultured buttermilk sold in stores would change the texture. Also, I like to explore vegan options when possible.
1: Milk and Yoghurt mix.
2: Milk with some Lemon Juice.
I believe you can also use milk and vegan yoghurt substitutes.
This web page is clearer (in the ratio of buttermilk seed or yogurt/sour-cream seed to milk) than the one I used to recommend:
https://www.thespruceeats.com/make-your-own-buttermilk-p2-995500#toc-how-to-make-cultured-buttermilk
And here's another one:
https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/packages/food-network-essentials/how-to-make-buttermilk
The net is that you can perpetuate buttermilk in a way somewhat (not exactly) similar to sourdough starter. Just keep feeding it new milk, skim or whole or anything in between, and let it sit at room temp for up to 12 hours.
I've made it three ways, using different "seeds":
1) the artificially thickened and gooey store-brand buttermilk, that has carageenan and other gums/starches.
2) Unflavored yogurt. Regular or Greek.
3) Sour cream - this creates the tangiest flavor.
Once you get it going, you don't have to add more yogurt or sourcream, just keep adding more milk, and let it sit at room temp for a while.
If I am just "topping off" my 2 quart container, say, adding 2 cups skim milk to 6 cups of home-brew buttermilk, I don't even bother bringing it up to room temp. That ratio seems enough to do it cold.
But if adding/feeding 7 cups milk to 1 cup of home-brew buttermilk, then I do bring it up to room temp, and 10 to 12 hours at 75 F seems to work.
I try to use up and feed mine regularly because it continues to get tangier even sitting in the fridge.
Lately, I've been feeding it skim milk made from Kroger brand instantized powdered milk.
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Because this make-your-own doesn't have the added starches and thickeners, it makes fluffier buttermilk pancakes (and I would suppose fluffier buttermilk biscuits) than the artificially thickened and gooey store brand buttermilk.
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You could use skim milk to make the buttermilk if you don't want to add fat to your rye bread.
Thanks, I never thought of making my own buttermilk! Great information.
Apple cider may be another option for an acidic liquid. There is an excellent recipe for Pain au Cidre in Stanley Ginsberg's The Rye Baker that uses yeast and hard apple cider for acidity. I didn't measure the pH of the hard cider I used, but it worked out OK. It may be possible to use regular apple cider, too, but pH of the liquid would have to be checked.
His book also has another recipe for Breton Folded Rye that uses yeast and no souring agent. It is a 64% rye and a very short fermentation (30–45 minutes total) and bake (30–35 minutes) are used to short-circuit the starch attack of the amylase. I haven't made it yet, but I have had a report of its success from a rye novice.
lemon juice, vinegar, You got the pH meter, blend with water or milk to get your ideal pH. Note pickle and sauerkraut juice contain salt so tasting the dough and making adjustments will be needed. Lemon juice and vinegar are predominantly water with a spoon or two added to sour the water.
Na ya, maybe more experimenting that what you're looking for... but you can still have a lot of fun.
How are you set up with rye bread spices? Walnuts?
Thanks for the suggestions. I do have pickles juice around from last year's batch, but tinkering with the salt content of the bread makes me uneasy... But lemon juice might do it. Lots of options for me to try!
I love using bread spices and so far my favorite is 50% caraway, 50% anise. Walnuts, haven't tried that yet. But I often add raisins which makes very tasty breakfast toast!
I baked a yeasted rye bread using hard cider for the acidic liquid. The bread is delicious but didn’t get the rise I normally get with sourdough for the same recipe. It’s a denser loaf. I wonder if the alcohol content inhibited the yeast which made it rise less. The preferment also didn’t rise much, maybe 33%. I think I’ll try a nonalcoholic alternative next time.