The Fresh Loaf

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Dutch Oven Bread - non-sourdough

dennis_castro's picture
dennis_castro

Dutch Oven Bread - non-sourdough

Guys - fairly new to this and trying to get some terminology straight.

I see some very basic dutch oven bread or no-knead bread recipes on google/tasty.com.  And then I see these very detailed recipes and protocols on sour dough breadmaking. i am aware the difference is that sourdough is wild yeast while everything else is commercial yeast. The overall breadmaking procedures seem very similar in concept, but the super detailed experimentation is all on the sourdough side.. 

Is there a name for bread that is made in the sourdough style, using only commercial yeast? 

I have a starter and have made SD loaves.  Is it just as simple as taking all of the same procedures used for SD, and substituting commercial yeast?

I feel like there's gotta be other discussions on SD style breadmaking with commercial yeast. 

Thx

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Yes.  You've already touched on some of the terms.

  • No-knead bread.
  • Artisan bread.
  • Hearth bread.
  • Overnight-rise bread.
  • Rustic bread.

The "time = kneading" rubric is true whether you use wild yeast or commercial yeast.

Or, as Ken Forkish says "time and temperature are ingredients."

As you've likely picked up, there is more difference between sourdough (wild yeast plus bacteria) and commercial yeast, than just time.  There is flavor, there is lactic acid, there is acetic acid.  There are differences in the amount of rise you look for in both the first and second rise.

And there is more difference between pan-loaves and free-formed loaves than just the pan.  Again, rising/increase amounts.  Hydration amounts.  There is a lot more _shaping_ going on for free form loaves too, which requires a more precise hydration and ferment/proof times.

Major bread authors, such as Peter Reinhart, Jeffrey Hamelman, and Ken Forkish include both commercial yeast formulas and sourdough formulas in their books. But their formulas are still pretty much "artisan."

The author who first introduced me to "time = kneading" and "time = flavor" is Steve Gamelin. He has a super simple system (using commercial yeast) at www.youtube.com/artisanbreadwithstev  (No final "e").

Although businesses and schools can enforce standardized terminology within their walls, among home-based hobbyists there is a wide variation of what terms actually mean.  Such as "barm" "starter" "levain" and "poolish" having a lot of overlap.  Ferment, proof/prove, and rise also get interchanged.    It takes careful and rather detailed descriptions to communicate without confusion in this hobby.

Going from commercial yeast pan loaves to free form sourdough loaves confuses many people because they look for a doubling (100% increase) in both the bulk ferment and the final proof, like they did with commercial yeast pan loaves, or what they call "first rise" and "second rise".  

I say that to illustrate that the main hurdles some people seem to have when transitioning from commercial yeasted pan loaves, to sourdough free form loaves, is that they bring their pre-conceived notions of procedures/concepts, and hold on to them instead of  closely following the sourdough/free-form procedures.  

The "high level"  overarching concepts are pretty much the same. But as soon as you get to lower level concepts, and actual timings/procedures, then much changes.

"Artisan bread" with commercial yeast is still worthwhile, as evidenced by the high-end cookbooks. It's just kind of a hybrid animal.  And I know that it helps some people transition to sourdough, as it did for me, since I baked for years with Gamelin's formulas.

Colin2's picture
Colin2

For what it's worth, there's much experimentation and innovation with commercially-yeasted bread.  See for example Reinhart's Pain a l'Ancienne in BBA.  

I don't think "Artisan bread" means much any more.  Maybe a better way to put it is that there is a lot of wonderful experimentation going on in terms of:

-- leavenings

-- hydration

-- fermentation timings

-- grains

and other dimensions!  The creativity and craft that you will find if you poke around on this board is just stunning.  But there is no one name and no tidy organization.  There are multiple ways to divide this world up depending on what matters to you.  If you look at Hamelman's _Bread_, for example, you will see three categories: breads made with yeasted pre-ferments, levain breads, and straight doughs.  

What is finishing in my oven right now is an 80% hydration free-form loaf that involved four days of fermentation and several grains.  It's leavened with commercial yeast.