February 24, 2019 - 10:39am
1-2-3 Third Attempt
Decided on upping the starter to 150 so...
Starter 150g
Water 300
Flour 225 AP/225 BF
12g of salt
Mixed it all up, let it rest for an hour
Looked at it and folded it every 2 hours for 6.5 hours
Wonderful marshmallow texture when I put it in the bowl
Let it go in the fridge for 22 hours
Baked at the usual 450 for 500, I did forget to dunk the parchment paper in water.
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I am impressed at the oven spring after 22 hours in the fridge and 14% prefermented flour!
Tell me more about this 14% prefermented dough. How was that calculated and how did that ratio contribute to the bake/spring?
Here is how the 14% prefermented flour is calculated.
100% levain totaling 150g contains 75g flour. 75 + 450 = 525g total flour
75 / 525 = 14.29% of total flour prefermented
The individual contents of the levain is always considered and added to total flour and water in a formula.
- - - As far as contributed to spring - I don’t think the % of prefermented flour is the determining factor. But the combination of the amount of levain COMBINED with the temperature and length of fermentation affects the oven spring. Too much fermentation will over proof the dough, causing poor or no spring. The smaller the amount of Levain (temperature being equal) the longer the duration of fermentation, and vice versa.
Dan
Ovy, you are up early...
not up early, up late- damn daylight savings! Gets me every time!
See? It paid to be persistent -- and it's only the third one, so
Keep on baking!
Carole
You should be darn proud of that loaf.
Happy Baking!
I am rather proud of this loaf, tastes so very tangy. But this is perhaps my 30th. I’m done playing and am getting serious about my bakes.
I have always made a pretty good tasting loaf, but now my supreme goal is oven spring.
Suggestions welcome!
So how can I get more oven spring from this recipe? Larger ratio of AP Flour to BF?
Danni’s concern is valid. It is possible that 22 hours in the frig caused the dough to over proof. The temp of your frig is crucial for retarded dough. The difference between 39 and 42F can make a huge difference in the fermentation of the cool dough. Please post a crumb shot. The crumb tells us a lot about your bread.
For maximized oven spring and bloom the dough must not be over proofed. A dough that is slightly under proofed is best. And the oven should be hot and the oven’s interior and also the stone (if used) should be heat saturated. Here is the concept. Heat makes things expand. Hot are is lighter than cold air, that is why it rises. Hot air is less dense because of the expansion. When the gas inside the dough gets hot it expands. This expansion enlarges the alveoli (holes or pockets in the dough), and as they enlarge the dough expands, since the gluten works to contain the gas.
By the way, little miss Danni is a master of oven spring! Check out any of her bakes...
Danny
Oh! Why do you dunk your parchment in water? I haven’t heard about that.
My original bake post has a link to my shared google photos album, which has the crumb. I am curious how this looks to the "outside world". Since I am on a Chromebook, it is pretty seamless.
Do let me know if my laziness is preventing anyone from seeing any photos. Ill download to my laptop then up to the site (ugh) for the benefit of the crumb!
Note, soaking the parchment. Yes, I saw this in a youtube video and feel in love with the sudden sizzle. It also is easier to manipulate the paper with the dough in it into the dutch oven.
I just read a post by Danni regarding oven sprig. I pasted it below.
/// Danni’s Method ///
I usually use about 250 g of Levain per 1100 g
of flour or so and I keep my fridge at 38F. I divide my dough into 3 boules and keep them to proof in the fridge 9 to 10 hours. As soon as I hit over 10 hours, I lose oven spring. So check your fridge temperature and give 10 hours a try and see if you get improvement.
I personally don’t think the oven spring I get is all that fantastic but I am happy with it. Glad to know you think is great. ?
You are like me, I bet! Everybody else’s bread looks great. But I always judge mine with an extremely critical eye.
True Story. Not long ago I was looking at some of my bread images. I came upon one that I thought someone else baked and I went besetrk. I thought it was absolutely gorgeous. And THEN, I realized it was one of mine :-D
We are too hard on ourselves. Your breads spring like crazy...
Danny
I recognize my loaves a mile away so I don’t think that’s ever going to happen here. Ha ha
For the glory of science, I think I am going to use the exact same formula BUT less of a second fridge proofing.
It was a great Friday night, but a bad Saturday morning so it took me a while to get to the dough.
No more than 12 this time, though the schedule may eat me alive.
The only crumb shot I found was your original bake. It would be best if you posted them to the forum. The images are important information.
It is minor but you can change your salt to 10.5 (11) grams. Your 150g of 100% hydrated starter contains 75g flour. Your total flour is 450 + 75 = 525g. Salt is .02 x 525 = 10.5g.
I think sticking to the same formula is a good idea. I am detail oriented so I would change the salt to either 10 or 11g. But then again, I am obsessed :-D
Are you tighly bagging the dough while retarding in the frig?
Ovy, an experiment comes to mind. If you continue with the same formula without better results, you could try adding a very small amont of yeast (along with you r levain) to see if you can get the oven spring. If the yeast gives you a good spring, you may want to focus on your starter. It may help to rule out a variable. <Might Work> Maybe others have some ideas to eliminate some of the variables. If we can find the problem, we can focus on the solution. I am interested to learn more about this myself.
Dan
Here is the crumb shot in question, this is from the third attempt.
I don’t think your problem is over retarding. Your bread still looks under proofed.
Dan
maybe my party fridge is too cold for dough. I’ll try a regular fridge at about 38 degrees next time
This week I did a 12 hour proof, at 38 F, in a Pullman and it rose about 30# in the pan so it had to sit out for a couple pf hours on the counter on a heating pad to finish proofing to bake -it could have gone 22 hours and still not n=been fully proofed. Other breads have over proofed in 12 hours. It's not a problem you just re-shape it and let it proof again on the counter to 90% or you bake it off and get no spring . That is why I usually just do a bulk retard - no matter what it comes out of the fridge perfect every time for me to shape and bake off at just the right time the next morning.
I think your loaf this time came out just fine inside and out. If you want more spring and bloom just get it into the heat earlier say at 90% proof instead of 95% for a whole bread with whole grain ones going in at 85%.
Happy baking