Leader's Silesian Light Rye
Silesian Light Rye 1
Leader's "Local Bread" has three formulas for Polish ryes. I have made the Silesian Dark Rye once and the Polish Cottaqe Rye many times. Today, I made the Silesian Light Rye for the first time.
Leader describes these "glossy golden loaves" as having "a delicate rye flavor, a spongy crumb, and a thin, chewy crust." That about sums it up. This rye bread is the farthest you can get from a dense, super-sour, dark german rye. But then, it only has about 100 gms of light rye flour to 500 gms of bread flour. The chew and taste are light even compared to a French levain with a bit of rye flour in the dough. It is more like a (extraordinarily good) sandwich bread. The crust gets very soft, and it is thin yet chewy. The whole loaf feels light and spongy.
I expect it will make lovely toast tomorrow morning to eat with my usual homemade almond butter and apricot jam or marmelade. I also think it would be great for a tuna or egg salad sandwich. I'd want a more substantial rye for corned beef, myself.
Silesian Light Rye Crumb
David
Comments
David
I have really been curious about making this bread and even bought some white rye flour from KAF in order to do so. I was interested to discover, after I purchased several bags of white rye and medium rye so I'd have them on hand, that Hamelman thinks you never should use white rye in bread and mostly uses whole rye in his recipes. Can anyone explain this to me since I am such a novice rye bread baker?
Did you use white rye? I'm assuming that it is an extremely mild rye flavor since the medium rye is noticeably milder than the whole rye I am used to using. I'm really trying to make myself delve into some rye breads to taste the flavor differences but I'm not so sure I'm going to like the more heavy, larger percentage rye breads - just a feeling.
Also, I have a question about the rye starter. I only keep a white starter and really have no desire to keep a separate rye starter. I posted this question on another thread that hasn't gotten a reply yet so hope you can answer. :o) I seem to remember reading and I thought it was Hamelman (but I could be wrong) that a rye starter cannot be neglected at all like a white flour starter to keep it healthy and that it can go downhill very quickly if not fed regularly. Would you say that is the case?
Glezer gives a recipe for one of the rye breads in ABAA that converts a white starter into a rye levain overnight and says "you don't need to keep a separate rye starter because you are making one now." I'd just like some feedback on that and maybe it is dependent on specific recipes.
Wow, lotsa questions. I think your bread looks really good and I'm so happy to find someone who's made it and likes it because it is certainly on my list. It does look like a wonderful sandwich bread.
Hi, Zolablue.
Yes. I used white rye for this bread.
White rye is called for in several breads I've made, but I've often substituted whole rye to get a fuller rye flavor. The best examples are Greenstein's Sour Rye and Corn Rye. Hamelman is reflecting his German rye baking background in prefering whole rye. I like the darker rye flavor too, but at times it's good to experience a bread that calls for white rye "as it's meant to be."
What you've read about the ease of converting a white SD starter to rye is true. These days, I do keep a rye starter going, because I'm making rye breads over half the time. In the past, I've just kept a white (or first clear) starter and converted it as needed for each baking. I gave pretty detailed instructions for this in a previous blog entry. I follow Greenstein's instructions for refreshing the rye starter. Basically, take 1/2 cup or so of SD starter, mix it with 1/2 cup of water and 3/4 cup of rye flour. Sprinkle 1/4 cup of rye flour all over the resulting "paste," cover and let it develop until the dry rye flour is widely separated (8-12 hours). Keep feeding the rye starter with 1/2 cup of water and 1 cup of rye flour (3/4 mixed and 1/4 sprinkled) every 8-12 hours until you have the quantity of rye sour you want. Then feed the sour weekly to store refrigerated and activate it with a feeding or two at room temperature in preparation for baking.
I have not found a rye starter any harder to maintain than a white SD starter. I have neglected my rye sour for a month or so at times and then re-developed it without difficulty.
David
Zolablue -
Here's a link to the forum post with photos of a developing rye sour and more detailed instructions from Greenstein.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/4796/greenstein039s-sourdough-rye-rye-sour-care-and-feeding-illustrated
David
Great news on keeping a rye starter. I think I should give it a try and see how it works just for the fun of it. Many thanks for the info and the thread you provided with your instructions. I'll be very anxious to read it. I'm really happy to hear it is not a lot of work to maintain a rye starter because my white one is so easy and has spoiled me. I just don't need a starter hassle so I've avoided the rye so far but now you've given me some encouragement to at least try it.
I appreciate the info on the white rye flour. I bought all these bags of white and medium rye so I could keep them in my freezer and avoid reordering and then read what Hamelman said and thought, ugh, did I just buy a bunch of flour that I won't want to use. All these leading bread bakers do things a bit differently and have their own philosophies but that's what keeps it interesting.
Seems like I came across an interesting "white rye" recipe on King Arthur's site a while back so I might have to look that up. David, thank you so much!
Zola,
I too keep a rye starter for the same reasons as David- about 1/2 my breads are rye and I just find it a lot quicker and easier to give my rye starter one feed than building up a rye starter from a stiff leavin (my other starter) over a couple of sessions. I use Leader's recipe in Local Breads for both the stiff and rye starters. I think the rye one is much easier to maintian as it's 133% hydration and only takes seconds to mix. I was sure I killed the starter on a coulpe of occasions due to neglect and leaving it in excessive heat. I didn't have much hope on either occasion and just fed it a couple of times to see if I could do anything with it. Within a couple of hours it had risen like a phoenix from the ashes.
I have no idea what white rye is. I have never seen it in Australia. I assume it is a fine sift of flour. The rye flour I buy I think is more medium grain than fine. When it runs out, I'm just going to mill my own.
I've made both the dark and light Silesian rye from Local Breads and love them both. It's amazing the difference in colour given that I seem to recall the only real change is the addition of yeast in the former (in light of the fact my rye flour didn't change with each loaf).
Fiona
Hi, Fiona.
As I understand it, whole rye, medium rye and white rye differ only in how much of the bran is sifted out. Pumpernickle rye is whole rye that is ground coarser.
Jeffery Hamelman, in "Bread," writes that, in Germany, rye flours are catagorized by ash content. In the US of A, the definitions are certainly looser and vary from mill to mill.
Leader's Light and Dark Silesian ryes differ not only in added yeast. The Dark Rye uses whole rye flour rather than white rye flour and also has 30% rye flour in the final dough whereas the Light Rye has only wheat flour (except for the rye in the starter). The difference between these two breads, when the prescribed ingredients are used, is great.
Have you made Leader's Polish Cottage Rye? I think it's my favorite of the three.
David
Hi David,
I HAVE tried Leader's Polish Cottage Rye and I agree, it's the best of the three. The first time I made it I vowed I'd never do it again as it was so incredibly sticky I really couldn't handle it (I think that was due to the fact I only have medium rather than fine rye flour). I seem to recall that after fermentation Leader says to shape it into a round. Well I tried that but the dough was like a leech and just wouldn't leave my hands. It was sticking to my arms, my t-shirt- everthing. There was no way I could shape it into anything, let alone a ball. In the end, I just chucked it in the banneton, swore a few times and left it alone for a couple of hours. Even when I removed it from the banneton, I didn't get a clean release. It is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever put in the oven but it bakes up well and tastes fantastic. The other two times I made it, it wasn't much different- I just knew what to expect so I wasn't nearly so frustrated. I guess I could try adjusting the water down but I often find with my ryes that they are either really sticky and I just have to trust that they will transform in the oven or, they are too dry and simply sit there like lumps of mud, not reacting at all. I'd rather put up with sticky.
Fiona
Hi, Fiona.
Ryes, in general, are stickier than all-wheat breads. I don't know that medium vs. fine grinds would make a dough stickier. Higher hydration would. Weaker gluten development would. But over-kneading will also make rye doughs stickier.
I find that Leader's ryes are less sticky after fermentation with folds. You might also try an autolyse, even though Leader does not prescribe one for the rye breads, to get better water absorbtion prior to kneading and fermentation.
Are you hand kneading or using a mixer? I machine-knead then do a brief hand kneading before bulk fermentation. I don't find this dough too, too sticky (for a rye bread dough).
If the dough was really sloppy, perhaps hydration was excessive.
Just some thoughts.
David
Hi, I am a new member here, but I bake rye breads regularly. I find when handling rye doughs that wet hands are essential, and must be re-wetted after every time the dough is handled. I mix my doughs in a bread maker to minimize the problem with stickiness. I then remove the mixed dough with wet hands and place into a bowl for proofing. I stretch and fold usually 3 times while bulk fermenting, always again with wet hands. Then when shaping, I use wet hands to remove the dough onto a wetted bench surface. But then, when shaping I dust liberally with flour. both on the dough and on my hands. This allows the formation of a proper boulle, and the flouring doesn't seem to affect anything regarding the bread at all. I then use rice flour in the banneton and on the loaf when placing it in for final proofing. This method works well, and allows for nice controlled shaping and a well shaped loaf on baking. I hope that helps. Cheers.