Trying to learn autolyse
i am new to bread baking. I am trying to learn autolyse when making whole wheat bread. I found this recipe online that explains it pretty well... but what do I know to judge. Can a more experienced baker take a look at the recipe for me? I think the amount of water in the autolyse portion is wrong. The recipe list states 2 ¾ cups of water, but in the paragraph the author states 2 ½ cups of water. When I actually made the autolyse portion 2 ¾ left me with a crumbly mess without all the flour incorporated. I added an additional ½ cup of water which gave me what’s in the picture of the blue bowl. That looks close to the picture in the article. Please advise. Thanks.
here is the link to the recipe. https://cheftalk.com/ams/how-to-make-a-really-good-loaf-of-whole-wheat-bread.27813/
p.s. it is quite dry in my house, about 35% humidity per the thermostat reading. What adjustments, if any, should I make to this recipe at this humidity?
I would use a different recipe. I don't understand why with this one, you create a preferment and your regular dough at the same time - There are lots of different ways to do this - but the basic idea goes to this definition from KAF: A preferment is a preparation of a portion of a bread dough that is made several hours or more in advance of mixing the final dough.
This and the idea that an autolyse is a "portion" makes me think this person really does not have these concepts down. You should find a few explanations of autolyse and you will find it really isn't what this recipe is saying.
I would look for something here that makes more sense and follows known practices
Thanks. When I saw the amount of water was different from the list as in the paragraph I had my doubts about this recipe.
This recipe doesn't make preferment and "regular dough" at the same time.
What are made at the same time
After 60-90min, then make the regular dough by combing these two and the rest of ingredients (honey, oil, salt & yeast).
The only strange thins is that the water amount on the list is different from what it is mentioned in the method. I guess, it wants you to use less water first and then adjust the hydration by adding a little more.
difference of opinion
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Any opinion on my bread? Any comments would be appreciated.
How much is left over?
One loaf remains. Why do you ask?
Looking at the formula you are using, the author seems to know what an autolyse and a preferment are...and the results look fine on that website.
I think you (and the rest of us) can learn a bit about making whole wheat sandwich bread from this thread (pics aren't working for me, but they show ridiculously good whole wheat bread, and txfarmer makes great bread in general):
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22831/sd-100-ww-sandwich-loaf-bulgur-cracked-wheat-my-sourdough-starter-declare-defeat
Pay special attention to the discussion of mixing whole wheat doughs...which is likely what your bread could use more of (one of the suspect claims off the website you link to is "the bread basically makes itself"...in some ways yes, in other ways not so much...)
I also think you need more water in your autolyse portion (or it needs further mixing)...I see dry bits and that is not good...you want everything to be hydrated
Finally, I have the same humidity right now as you, and I make sure everything that is going to sit for more than a couple minutes gets covered (typically with plastic)...and sometimes mist the inside of the plastic I'm using with a spray bottle to make sure a dry skin doesn't form on the dough.
Thanks a lot for your post. Very good and helpful advice.
By how fast it gets eaten up.
I'm always at a loss as to answer does this loaf look good. Unless a loaf is under fermented, over fermented or something else has clearly gone wrong then asking if it's good is subject to opinion. The only answer can be in the eating. If you want bigger holes but have gotten a tighter crumb then it can be improved upon or vice versa. If you have the a crumb you like then it's perfect. Then again one could have a great crumb but it doesn't taste good in which case it's a failure.
I see nothing wrong in your loaf. That's clearly a nice loaf from where I'm siting. It's not flat. It's not misshapen. The starter is clearly working. Whether it can be improved upon will purely be subjective.
Looks good to me but are you happy with it?
Thanks for your opinion. It tastes good but the crumb is way too heavy. One slice is like eating two, if that makes sense. I need to learn how to make it lighter then I’ll be happy.
When it comes to a whole-wheat loaf then never expect to get it as "light" as a bread flour loaf. Having said that it should not be heavy. So what we need to look at is hydration and whether there is anything else we can toggle for a better crumb.
Have you heard of a tangzhong?
I understand ww will never be as light as white bread. I’d like to make a ww bread that is comparable to Pepperidge Farms ww bread. That’s what I usually buy in the store. Is that something that I can achieve?
no, I never heard of tangzhong. It sounds Chinese.
There's a lot of bread improvers in their loaves. No doubt to make a whole wheat bread as soft as possible.
A tangzhong is where you take some of the flour and water, gently heat it up till it gels and then you add this gel into the dough for a softer crumb. A natural bread improver. Let's take a simple recipe and then add-in a tangzhong...
Now we'll take 5% from the flour and 5x it's weight from the water and make the tangzhong:
Tangzhong:
In a pan, on a low heat, gently heat the mix and keep stirring. Once it gels (should only take a few minutes) take it off the heat and leave to cool.
Final Recipe:
1: Autolyse the flour, 240g water and tangzhong for 1 hour
2: Add the salt, starter and 20g water (if it needs it) then combine.
3: Bulk ferment till ready giving the dough a 4x stretch and folds 30 minutes a part then rest for the remainder.
4: shape and final proof till ready.
5: Bake.
Thanks for the recipe. I’ll give a try this weekend. What is the starter? I saw that in the other recipe link in this thread but no explanation of what the starter consists of.
I do apologise. I'm thinking sourdough. You're using yeast.
Hang on... i'll alter the recipe.
Now bear with me as I'm more familiar with sourdough.
Recipe:
Pre-ferment:
Leave to ferment overnight and proceed next day when sponge like.
Tangzhong:
As in the sourdough recipe
Final Recipe:
Now you can't do an autolyse but you have a preferment and tangzhong. So combine all of the ingredients and form the dough adding enough water as needed. Proceed as normal.
Cool. I can handle this recipe. Thank you.
We can only try. Let us know how it turns out and we'll take it from there.
Whole wheat does benefit from an autolyse more so than bread flour. Since we've gone for both a preferment and tangzhong it's become difficult to include one. But there is another way around this.
Miss out the added yeast in the final recipe but it will take a lot longer to ferment. As long as you're prepared to wait.
Don't add the salt in straight away and leave it for 30 min to 1 hour after combining the dough then add the salt with a tad more water. So perhaps form the dough with 173g of water then add the extra when adding the salt.
This will give the dough time to absorb the water with a sort of autolyse. After which knead the dough and carry on.
Or do the pseudo autolyse and add the extra yeast when adding the salt.