The importance of temperature when baking bread?
Let me start by stating that I am aware that temperature is very important, but, I have a more specific question I wish to find the answer too.
As long as I accept the following conditions, do I really need to worry about my dough temperature?
Conditions:
- My dough is within typical home room temperature ranges 65-85 degrees F or typical refrigerator temperatures 35-45 degrees F.
- I am willing to watch my dough at frequent intervals to deal with faster or slower proofs, fermentings, rises compared to what the recipe might indicate
- I am ok with subtle changes in flavor, texture, color
- I will still measure the temperature to determine whether or not bread has finished baking.
The reason I am asking is because, a decent percentage of bread baker advice advocates dough temperature measuring. But, measuring the dough temperature introduces a new layer of complications and things to obsess about that I don't want to introduce unless the benefits are worthwhile. From my own research, I don't see a large benefit to measuring the temperature as long as you willing to deal with the conditions I listed above.
But... maybe you all can educate me and help me come to a better understanding.
Thanks!
Temperature is as important as any ingredient used in your dough. Many recipe instructions over look that. So, if you are told to mix such and such, then ferment for X hours you have a wide variance of time to deal with. Commercial bakeries live by temperature. They have schedules to keep. And their environment is controlled. Not so with us home bakers.
You will get tired of reading “watch the dough, not the clock” on this site. But it can’t be repeated enough. As home bakers we have the luxury of tweaking things on a regular basis. We are not bound by schedules :-)
Using (at times) either warm or cool water can be a help. Proofers, and less popular retarders, are a wonderful addition, but no where near necessary.
Temperature is as important as anything else to do with baking. At least that is my opinion.
Dan
in fermentation time -- for your starter, your levain, bulk fermentation, proofing. If you can watch the dough closely, and move along when it's ready, you can definitely make bread when your temp is between 65-85 dF, although rising and proofing may be very slow at the lower 10-15 degrees of it. Easy to arrange a warmer spot for the dough. Above about 82 dF I find things moving much too fast in my kitchen, so I've started cranking up the air conditioning, which we use as little as possible, at that point. I would like to find another way to keep my dough at about 80 dF when the ambient is above that. At least until the dough starts generating its own heat, which I'm not sure how to deal with. My starters generate *a lot* of heat of their own. A fast fermentation probably (OK, almost certainly) means less complex flavor, but of course you can always retard in frig. The differences in flavor may be more than subtle, partly because a difference in temp also means a difference in time. But also because it very much affects which critters (if you're using a sourdough starter rather than commercial yeast) are most active. My eater doesn't like sour breads, so I'm OK with a faster ferment for now, although I'd like a longer one to better deal with the phytic acid in the bran. Once I have a better grip on the whole process, I'll start dealing with that.
Hope that helps.
Either ice or an ice pack in the microwave might be just the ticket.
I am in the process of building a retarder right now.
Dan
I think an ice pack in the microwave might work beautifully. When I bake on a 90 dF+ day, the temp in the kitchen hovers around 84-85 dF even with the air conditioner working hard. So this could be very handy to try during my next bake! Thanks for the idea :-)
I'm very curious about this... although suspecting it's probably too big of a project for me...
I’ve already ruined 1 brand new freezer. I cut through a freon line :). I will be documenting this build with pictures. This way the next guy should be able to succeed without have to go through 2 or more freezers :) BTW; my unit will use a small compact freezer on wheels. It should operate from 0 to over 100F, depending on the source temperature source. So, a warm proofer will also be possible.
The project is really not that difficult, IF you know where the freon lines run. The manufacturers don’t have illustrations detailing the path of their lines. I cut the bad one open and photographed all lines. This will be a great help for others.
Dan
Extremely cool that it could be a warm proofer as well as a retarder. Not sure what I could do in my small apartment kitchen, maybe put in an extra mini-frig, if one would be big enough to be useful. I did see some instructions on The Perfect Loaf (at https://www.theperfectloaf.com/build-your-own-dough-retarder/#more-2943), and it doesn't look too daunting in theory, but the devil is most always in the details, like where the freon lines are located!
Really good of you to document with photos to help others!
I agree! I prefer to proof around 70F, and if it gets toward 80 I'll retard in the fridge or put the dough in a small bedroom that I can AC efficiently. It's not just flavor, it's also that dough texture and strength seem to deteriorate with hot proofing.
Baking temps is a whole 'nother question, but I do find that for breads that want a hot (425-450) oven, achieving that matters. You can't just do 350 for longer and expect similar results.
could have something to do with why my doughs seem sticky and difficult to shape? I do realize that wouldn't be the only factor, that a lot of it is the early stage of my dough development skills.
Interesting what you have to say about baking temp, too. I did wonder about the recipe I was using saying to end up at only 355F. That seems more like what you would do for a pan loaf.
is important, yeast control. if you're running warm you'll wanna shave time from proofing cycles and vice versa. It's particularly key with fast yeasts and final proofing - but a good amount of experience and familiarity with a routine it can be more ritual than anything else (sort of like window pane testing)
and I would recommend to get into the habit to work with temperatures....especially if at some stage you wish to bake more than just one loaf and then it will be actually more difficult to get the dough back to the target dough temperature. It is all about 'managing fermentation' as many good bakers say and temp is key to that......
I noticed this when now mixing for let's say 3 loaves rather than just one and much easier to ensure that the dough is the right temp from the start rather than having to adjust. I also like to 'treat temp like an ingredient' as Dan said and Maurizio has a very good post on this on his blog 'The Perfect Loaf'.
It also helps to compare like for like if you bake the same loaf again and again with so many variables to deal with...
So in a nutshell, I think it is a good habit to get into to watch and measure temps... Happy baking! Kat
I was trying do mix a levain with a desired dough temp of about 80 dF. The starter and the flour were both at about 70 dF an hour out of the frig. So, for 50 g. each of these, I added 50 g of water at about 94 dF. The resulting levain measured about 87.5 dF. So I figured that I somehow measured incorrectly with my instant read thermometer and temporarily gave up on measuring dough temp, just checking ambient, flour, and water. Any thoughts?
I wonder if the process of mixing the water into the dough created friction and heated the dough up.
The links below should answer your questions... I am not in a mathy mood right now, otherwise I'd try to make sense of these pages right now...
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/dough-temperatures.html
https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2018/05/29/desired-dough-temperature/
all that much. Using the calculating method from the Perfect Loaf (at https://www.theperfectloaf.com/the-importance-of-dough-temperature-in-baking/), which is basically the same as the method in Michael Kalanty's "How to Bake Bread", in order to get my desired temp of 80F I should have used water at 100F, considering the ambient temp + starter temp + flour temp. Hence my thinking that perhaps I somehow measured incorrectly, since I used water at about 95F and ended up with a dough temp of ~ 87.5F. But next time I'll write it all out instead of keeping it in my head, so I don't have the "abouts".
Based off of what everyone is saying... I can continue to avoid worrying about semi-precise temperature control, but I will eventually want to change my methods because:
I'm sold. I'm not ready to add that to my list of things to worry about, but, I will soon.
and we are all a bit obsessive and this comes from someone who HAS BAKED THE SAME LOAF AGAIN AND AGAIN TO LEARN.....for me it worked and all the bread was eaten...
this might help before you get mad..
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/the-importance-of-dough-temperature-in-baking/
with link to calculators!! Kat
The one thing to keep in mind, is if you do bake a lot, over time you will end up with many consistent variables. I always use the same temperature water and my flour and grains are stored at the same temperature. My methods are very consistent so I don't really worry about the temperature of the dough, but also use a proofing box and usually retard the bulk dough in my refrigerator.
If you try and keep your ingredient temperature consistent and keep as many variables the same, you will be successful.
Regards,
Ian
This is a great question and probably deserves its own thread. I like to go away and get work done too. Bread should be a pleasure and not a worry! OTOH, it's really nice to hit the baking time you want for guests. FWIW what I do is:
-- rely heavily on pre-ferments. The main reason I'm not doing sourdoughs these days is the timings are too constrained. Pre-ferments I can but in the fridge a few days ahead, and not think about.
-- aim to finish baking about two hours before guests arrive. Then if things take a little longer it's OK.
After too many parties when I spent half the time fussing in the kitchen, I've decided that when guests arrive I want to be making nothing more complicated than drinks. Simple is good.
I use room temperature water and ingredients as much as possible. I used to obsess over water temp, flour temp and dough temp. I now just watch the dough and place it in a warm or cool spot as needed. Mind you, when I make bread (4 batches of 3 loaves per batch), I stick around all day. If I need to go somewhere, in the fridge it goes. Over time, I have become much more relaxed about bread making.
No. That's more relevant for professional bakers who need precise schedules for every step in the breadmaking process. I have never measured the temperature of my dough.
But I'm not running a bakery making huge piles of dough that has to be consistent either. I can't control it very well. When It is summer time here and the temperature in the kitchen is 86 F and in the winter it is 66F things are different when it comes to bread making. The water temperature is very different so is the temperature of the flour. Even my fridge temperature is different and the dough going into it is a different temperature. I find dough temperature to be an anal thing for a home baker andt a totally worthless thing to worry about because what am I supposed to do? Toss a load of dough in the trash because it isn't 72.5 degrees or it if is too high add ice to it or too cold add hot water to it and then have to add more flour and then more leaven and then more salt. A total waste of time in my book. If I took the temperature of the dough and it was high or low I would say, so what, too bad and go about making real bread at home fixing the things I can control when it is hot or cold in the kitchen that are common sense,
I also don't follow any recipes except Lucy's and she never specifies dough temperature and itf she did I would send her to the pound or get her at least out of the kitchen toot suite:-)
What is most helpful for a home baker is knowing how temperature, hydration, amount of preferment flour in the mix and the process can affect the rough times that things will happen ......so you don't have to watch the dough 24/7. Forget dough temperature and learn these things instead In the winter you might want to have heating pad of proofer to speed things along and increase the pre-fermented flour and hydration or some combination. In the summer, less water, pre-fermented flour and use the fridge more to slow things down.
Granny never took her dough temperature and neither should you. It will only make you an anal, crazy person who will never learn how to bake a loaf of bread and be happy about it.