Can anyone please give me some advice
Good Evening,
I hope I'm posting this in the right place. I just joined.
I'm looking for a Challah/Bread recipe that I could make using these flours together.
Oat flour, white whole wheat and white spelt flour.
I could also use old fashion oats. Flax seed, and chia seeds.
I know I just can't replace one with the other and I need to know how much to use of each in order for it to rise.
It would be nice if i could braid it. but if it is better to just make pull apart balls or loafs. Then that's fine.I also don't mind skipping the eggs or the sugar.
I tried making a recipe with only oat flour with topiaca starch and xanthan.
It tastes very good. But it wasn't rising to much. So I'm thinking Maybe I could make something with a few different flours together.
I want the fiber to be highest possible. Because I'm watching my wait and that would help
Any could ideas or recipe of what I can do would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advanced.
I have a Bosch mixer with stainless steel or white bowl.
I w
Whole wheat will absorb more water than bread flour
Spelt will absorb less
A mix of both when replacing an all bread flour recipe should work with little or no alteration for the water.
When using whole oats try and do a soaker using part of the water (about twice it's weight). Use boiling water and soak overnight. The weight of the oats should be about 20%.
Flour 100% (white whole wheat 40%, white spelt 40%, oats 20%)
Soak the oats in twice it's weight in boiling water overnight.
Make the dough with the remainder water and flour (plus extra ingredients) adding more water if you think it needs it...
Dissolve the yeast in a little water. Place to one side for 5-10 minutes. Add the rest of the water to the oats and break it up in the mixer. Then add the rest of the ingredients (flour, salt, yeast/water mix, eggs, sugar and oil). Knead the dough in the mixer and add water slowly till the right consistency if you think it needs it. Bring to full gluten formation etc.
This is how I'd tackle a recipe and make changes.
Thanks a mill.
How would you do it with oat flour instead of whole oats.
I want to bake it today. Don't want to soak it.
And when you say soaking the oats . Do you leave that water from the soaked oats as part of the recipe?
And do you think adding a cup of flaxseed could go wrong?
Just mix all the flours together and no need to soak. Don't use boiling water either as that is only for soakers.
If one would use jumbo oats and incorporate a soaker then it'd be water from the recipe and the rest of the water added when the dough is made.
For now just take a recipe you wish to follow and replace the flour with the ratio of white whole wheat and whole spelt you'd like but keep the oat flour as 20% maximum. Follow the recipe as is but you might need to adjust the water when making the dough.
I wouldn't like to venture a guess at flaxseed as I don't have enough experience putting it into bread.
Thank you so much for your swift response and advice.
Happy pesach Sheini
It's only an educated guess. A work in progress. I'm sure it'll be tasty either way even if it does need to be tweaked further.
My pleasure and hope it works out.
Happy Pesach Sheini.
Hang on a minute... challah on pesach sheini? ;)
Unfortunately we're in exile.
Dose this make sense?
1lb 2 oz oat flour
3lb 6oz spelt
3lb 6 oz whole wheat
Dose ratio make sense?
The recipe is for six pounds flour. And besides, more won't fit in the mixer.
Sorry, it's 2.4 of the spelt and whole wheat.
pounds and ounces.
Makes no sense to me. I only work in grams. Tried to work out percentages just now but I'm getting nonsensical answers.
Sorry,
I'll try to clarify. Google helps me alot.;)
I need to use six pounds of flour total. Which is 2721.554 grams
Which is 544.311 oat flour.
And 1088.622 of each spelt and whole wheat.
That sounds correct to me.
Turns out I did understand but it seemed an awful lot of flour. In an experiment I'd start off with a single loaf before progressing.
But the math seems correct to me.
Hi Abe,
I feel similar in converting Fahrenheit to Centigrade and vice versa, being stuck at 4th grade arithmetic skills. But here's a handy converter that I have used a number of times. Maybe this will help the avoirdupois deficient amongst us!
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/yeast_converter.html
alan
The reason why I don't like "lb and oz" is because it's not one number (like grams) and then finding a percentage? I did try to convert it all to "oz" then find the percentage only to convert it back to "lb and oz" and... well let's put it this way - thank goodness im not an engineer.
Now to look up what avoirdupois means :)
on my ipad and you can convert all sorts of stuff, temperature, weights, lengths etc etc. I would think you could get this for android smart phone or tablet
Leslie
I'll check it out.
https://recipes.sparkpeople.com/cookbooks.asp?cookbook=1083463
Can you please check the link. I posted the recipe there to ad it up.
They only let you ad cups and grams.
I ended up using
2.4 lbs of spelt flour
2.4 lbs of Whole wheat flour
and 1.2 pounds of oat. = 6lbs flour
3 eggs
3 TBSP dry instant yeast.
5 tsp salt
1 cup sugar
1 cup oil
6 cups of water
1/2 cup chia seed
1/2 cup flax seed.
I just want to know if i entered properly?
Thanks for your help.
The challah is delicious.
I'm wondering if any of you have a good nutrition fact calculator app?
I want to figure out how many weight watchers points my bread will have.
Their recipe builder wont except so many servings.
I need to figure out how to post pictures here of the final product.
So I ended up using
40% white spelt 40 % white whole wheat 20% oat flour.
Mixed all three flours together.
3 tbs instant dry yeast
3 eggs
1 cup olive oil - it calls for regular/canola
5tsp salt
1 cup sugar.
6 cups water.
My own addition. Half a cup flaxseed and half cup chia seeds.
Prepped the yeast with one of the cups water. And a few pinches sugar.
Then I added oil , sugar and another four cups water, eggs.
Mixed a little then added half the flour. Mixed for minute just to get all the wet ingredients mixed in flour. Once it was forming I added the remaining flour with the salt and one last cup of water.
I also included half a cup flaxseed and half chia seeds. And let it knead for 12 minutes.
The chia seed and flaxseed was my own addition.
Let it rise for approximately 40 minutes. Pushed down a little. Waited another 20 minutes then I devided each dough in to twelve 12 ounces for each dough.
I then made loafs. Two of them I made pull apart balls.
One braided. ( I can't braid)
The rest I made regular loafs.
Coated with egg white and sprinkled whole oats.
Let it rise for one hour over hot oven. And baked for approximately 35-40 minutes.
I rename my Challah when I remove from freezer anyway.
I think the general serving for bread is one ounce.
So if I got 13 breads. Each was 12 ounces. Then I should have about 12 serving in each.
The dough wasn't falling apart but it wasn't like my regular Challah dough.
Maybe because of the seeds?
then I would recommend that you just divide your recipe by 13 to get the amount of each ingredient per loaf, and then enter it as 12 servings, so that you can get the correct Points figure.
If you are more concerned with the actual calories / fibre / nutrition, then you could try creating an account at nutritiondata.self.com and fill in your recipe there. They have the complete USDA database for your ingredients, so you can get a good picture of the overall nutrition, over and above the Points.
Another possible site might be sparkrecipes.com, but their database isn't as complete, so you might run in to missing items there.
I did a quick run-through of your recipe (without counting the egg wash and extra stuff you put on the outside, since you didn't give quantities), and based on 13 loaves of 12 servings each for 156 servings, you are looking per serving 84.7 calories; 2.4g total fat (0.3g saturated, 0.4g polyunsaturated, 1.2g monounsaturated); 3.5g cholesterol, 77.4mg sodium, 72.2mg potassium; 14g carbohydrates (2.4g fibre, 1.8g sugars); 3g protein. I have never dealt with Weight Watchers, so have no idea what that would be in Points.
Oh - and it really is a bit of a surprise that your dough didn't fall apart from the addition of the dry flaxseed and chia seeds. Both of those should be pre-soaked since they will absorb up to three times their weight in water. Your hydration on this recipe would have been drastically reduced with you adding them in without being soaked, since they would be taking the water from the dough.
Thank you very much for your post. I'll check it out.
Your correct. It actually almost fell apart. It wasn't like a regular dough. It was just on safe side. I really had to knead each peice so it holds together. And it was very easy to pinch off pieces when i was weighing the dough to divide it. It wasn't so elasticy as regular flour would be.
The end result is this. Taste wise, it is very good I'd definitely make it again. My only question is, if there is any way I could tweak it or do something to make it more fluffy and not so stiff.
I know I used very little dough per loaf. Only 12 ounces. So automatically it won't be so big. But how can I make it should rise evenly at least for the most part?
Just like every commercial bread it's understandable that not every peice is 1oz but at least you get most of the slices the same size. But when it's so stiff and small it's hard to get even weighing slices.
Do you think that the flaxseed and chia seed caused it? Or it would happen regardless because of the whole wheat and oats?
Now, if I would decide not to make regular Challah but more like bread which doesn't have eggs and sugar.
Would you substitute the egg and oil with another cup of water?
And would not adding sugar next time affect the rising even more?
Thanks in advance.
According to the weight watchers calculator using the nutrition facts you gave me. A slice of 1 oz is 3 points
Where most commercial breads I'll get 1 point for one slice and 3 points for two.
I assume it's because of the sugar and the oil? And maybe the eggs.
How would you cut down on these ingredients?
that you are using simple ingredients and not a bunch of no-calorie adders (such as cellulose and chemical agents) and whipping a bunch of air in (which would be nice if we could, but you need all of the chemicals to sustain that air in the mix). Commercial bread ingredient lists are generally quite a bit longer than your recipe, and can only come out at the calorie / points level that you're talking about by using no-calorie / no-nutrition additives. Also, keep in mind that laws regulating nutrition label data allow for up to 20% discrepancy, and that the label is information for the particular weight shown (which could very well work out to less than half of a slice).
Realistically, for your new challah recipe, if you are assuming 156 servings at 1 oz per serving, then each serving is only including 12.2 calories of olive oil, 4.9 calories (less than 1/3 tsp) of sugar, 1.4 calories of egg, 2.44 calories of flaxseed, and 3.1 calories of chia. Your oat flour is higher in calories and fat than wheat flour (but is also higher in soluble fibre), and your whole wheat and whole spelt flour will also be higher in fat and calories than plain white flour (but also higher in fibre and nutrition). You could possibly cut down on the oil and use another liquid instead, but you won't get anywhere near the same texture and flavour. You would likely find that you would get more "servings" out of the overall recipe and that the dough would be easier to work with if you pre-soaked the chia seeds and flaxseeds in 2 to 3 times their weight of water prior to adding them to the dough. This will actually drop the calories / "points" per serving, since the water won't add any calories.
For comparison, I am in the middle of mixing up a 100% lean whole wheat loaf right now that will work out as roughly 65 calories per ounce. I will note, however, that a "serving" for me is NEVER 1 ounce --- that would be less than 1/2 of a 1/3" thick slice from one of my loaves, and I can't see myself ever having that little at a time. For a 100% rye loaf, I'll have a 1/4" thick slice that will be 40g (about 1-1/3 ounces), but on a wheat / sandwich loaf each 1/3" thick slice will end up being between 55 and 60g (1.9 to 2 oz).
Personally, I am interested in getting the most nutrition with the best flavour for my "calorie buck", so I make recipes that I really enjoy out of simple ingredients that are high in nutrition, and I just try to limit how much I have of any one thing so that I can get a wide variety of nutrients. If I enjoyed your standard challah recipe, then I would just make it the way that I like it, but maybe have not as much of it or have it not quite as often so that I could have it the way that I really like it, but can also enjoy a variety of other things every day. It really is a matter of personal priorities, but I don't see the point in making / eating something made in a way that I don't like very much when I can just as easily balance out my overall eating to let me enjoy it the way that I prefer it.
Your call, but I really recommend that you assess your priorities and make your choices of how to make your challah based on what is most important to you.
Good luck, and keep baking happy!
I totally understand what your saying.
I was just thinking since I didn't take this recipe out of a book or something why not just make it so I can easily enjoy it.
Nothing I put in there is a must. It's all there because I wanted to try it this way. And I happen to like the way it tastes.
So why not work it out so I could eat the same ounce for less points if possible. I'm not sure cutting down on something will make the out come worse.
So I guess just trial and error is my best teacher here.
And sometimes learning the facts helps alot. Like you mentioned soaking the flax and chia. Etc...
Or maybe next time I could try with out one of them? Or maybe less.