my first levain risen bread!! but i know the technique and all else needs work...
63% Whole Wheat
37% bread flour levain/poolish (i'm new to this, not sure if i'm using the right terminology or not - my starter :)
65% hydration
2% salt
my technique:
i mixed flour, levain and water to shaggy set and let autolyse for 45 minutes. mixed for 2 minutes and transferred to a board to ferment for 2 hours, folded twice at 50 minute intervals. shaped into oval and put into oiled le creuset dutch oven to proof for 2.5/2.75 hours. baked at 450 for 25 minutes with cover on, cover removed and left for add'l 20 minutes. not sure if i under proofed it - tried to score top, but it also cracked.
love this site - whomever directed me to the Bread book - thank you!!! I'm completely obsessed. Want to perfect this loaf but really want to add whole rye flour to it - make it half whole wheat and half rye, but i know that adds a whole other wrinkle.
Any feedback would be so greatly appreciated!!
thanks!
Comments
lovely loaf and nice crumb. Nothing wrong with your method. Technically if you make an off-shoot starter, with your starter, it's called a levain. It basically is a starter and terminology all depends on how you use it. In this case your starter is the "mother" or "starter". Both are pre-fermented.
Technically an autolyse is done without the levain but many do it with. If you do it with then remember the bulk ferment starts when the levain goes into the dough.
for the feedback as well as the compliment! can you explain a bit more regarding the ferment starting when the levain goes into the dough for me? does that mean i'm leaving it too long? i'm doing the "poke" test to determine when to put it in the oven, but i'm literally sooooo new to this - created my starter on may 3rd. it only really kicked into gear yesterday. i have another loaf of this waiting for another turn in about 45 minutes. thank you again! i love this site!
but the best way to learn is to bake. And if this is your first loaf with a young starter you've got a bright future in baking ahead. I certainly wasn't producing anything close to this when I first started.
Basically an autolyse is for the enzymes to get started before adding the starter/levain. Strictly speaking. However many do include the levain in the autolyse. But once the levain goes in the dough is beginning to ferment. It's just something to watch out for and to take into account. As long as you watch the dough and not the clock it'll be fine. The most difficult part of bread baking is judging when the bulk ferment and final proof is done. And that comes with practice.
lots to learn is right - i had a loaf that turned out like a flying saucer because it deflated this past weekend - still tasted pretty good though! hahaha i'm enjoying doing this so much.
okay - questions:
i fed what was left of my starter last night the amount of flour/water i wanted to add to my dough this morning (pre-ferment then?) the volume tripled overnight! it's definitely very active right now - i took most of it out and when i weighed the container after it was 16.9oz, (the container itself is 12.6 oz). Well now, without feeding it yet today - it's up to 29.7oz on the scale!! can i use this again today? shouldn't i be feeding it again? (it's been more than 12 hours but it's growing!) i literally have no one to ask, so i really really hope you don't mind feeding me information! :)
fire away and i'll do my best.
Well firstly, the way how you use your starter, you aren't building a levain. You feed your starter, take some off and use it in the dough. You use starter.
If you took some starter off and fed it with flour and water to put into a dough then this would be a levain. A levain is good for a few reasons one of which is you can build it with different types of flour and to a different hydration all the while keeping your "mother" starter separate to a specification you like. You're basically using the starter as a "seed" when building a levain.
It sounds like to me you're constantly feeding it at the moment and it's active. As long as you allow it to mature after feeding then it's fine to use.
Many prefer a levain as they keep less starter in the fridge and take off a little each time to feed. When the starter runs low then they'll take it out to feed and return back to the fridge once it's been fed and given some TLC. For the process to be repeated. It's more manageable this way and good for the occasional baker. If not kept in the fridge then it'll need constant feeding.
What is slightly (or very) confusing is your starter gaining weight just by maturing. Bubbling up doesn't mean it gains weight.
maybe i weighed it in a confused state considering i've been up for about 4.5 hours already. lol.
so if this is about triple in volume is that considered mature? its super bubbly as well. it's not necessarily a time thing, correct? and i love the idea of being able to keep the starter in the fridge, but i was worried about the retarding / bringing it back to life when i've only really just gotten it started going? how long does it take to be able to put a dough together if i start refrigerating it?
i think i'm going to try to use what i have once the dough i'm working now goes into the banneton (1st time trying one!). my friends are going to be drowning in bread!!
when making a new starter to try and keep up daily feedings for as long as possible. Your starter will continue to mature and gain strength over the next month. Once you think it's strong enough and predictable then you can think about refrigerating. But keep up this regular feeding for as long as you're happy doing so after which seek advice on how to manage a refrigerated starter.
Tripling in volume and super bubbly sounds mature to me. Optimum time to catch a starter is peaked and just beginning to fall. Depending on how much it has been fed will dictate how long it takes to mature. A healthy feed for a strong starter is no less than 1:1 starter to fresh flour.
When refrigerating all you do is take some off and build a levain. If it's been recently fed then you can do a single build or if you think it needs more TLC as it's been in the fridge a while then it is a good idea to do two or more builds. The process is the same. Feed and allow it peak. Some people keep their starter in the fridge and then take it out and treat it how you're doing so now and use it as starter as supposed to building a levain. There are many ways.
Flour that banneton well and try to use some rice flour. 50:50 mix of bread flour : rice flour to coat a banneton is good.
P.s. your starter will peak quickly when fed regularly. When kept in the fridge it will take longer. But if building in two or more stages it'll speed up.
this is amazing information. i've been reading, but so great to get instant type feedback. so thank you so so much!
here's hoping my banneton will be okay with just bread flour this go round. i was pretty heavy handed with the first flour, and spent time making sure it was in the cracks as well. it's just gone in to proof. i'll find out in a few hours / whenever it's done. i have a silicone dough scraper just in case it gets stuck as well (i read somewhere that's what i should use if that happens.) will have to pick up some rice flour - almost used semolina, but then i wasn't sure if that was a good or bad idea.
i'm going to keep doing what i've been doing with my starter, it seems to like it at this point. once i've secured my new job, i will worry about getting it into the fridge. right now i have the time to watch and feed it pretty regularly.
i mentioned in my original post that i'd love to make this loaf with whole rye flour too. i know that it changes the gluten structure, and i think that autolyse doesn't do anything but harm in this case? if you have any experience you can share i would appreciate that as well.
Semolina works! Fine semolina is good for dusting the loaf.
I know what it's like to be a beginner and how confusing it can all be but only when you use it and bake with it does it become clearer.
If you'd like to use rye then no harm in replacing up to 20% of the flour with rye without compromising the structure and other aspects of the recipe too much.
I am at work right now so if I go quiet then rest assured i'll answer as soon as I can. Now it's straight away but other times it is less so.
it is much appreciated! and i know i have to practice practice practice :)