April 23, 2017 - 3:46pm
It's amazing how quickly grain begins to sprout
Can't find Red Rye Malt anywhere so I've resorted to making my own. Last time i picked up a bag of spelt grains by-mistake. Sprouted, dried and ground them for malt but this is the first time for rye malt. Bank Holiday next weekend in the UK (every first and last Monday in May is a holiday) so plan on making some Borodinsky bread which I've done many times before but will be my first time with the correct malt flour. It's just amazing how quickly they come alive. It's been just 24 hours and the shoots are beginning to appear.
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I have been experimenting with a Buckwheat Sprouted Grain Bread with marginal results, but I too was amazed at how fast the buckwheat groats sprouted. Like you, 24 hours showed 1/4 inch tails and after 48 hours it began to look like bean sprouts!
I'll be curious if you have success with your malt experiment. I was under the impression that diastatic malt was a result of sprouting barley. Are you trying for a different result? Am I mistaken regarding the barley? Please keep us informed.
Jim
in my understanding, can be created by malting a number of different grains, including barley, rye, wheat, and even rice. The process is the same (sprouting the grain until enzyme development is optimized, then drying at less than 130 degrees F, and then milling for diastatic powder).
I haven't found a reference for it, but it's even possible that your buckwheat groats may produce the necessary enzymes when fully sprouted (although you wouldn't be taking them that far for use as a sprouted flour).
I personally prefer the flavour profile of rye, so use white diastatic rye malt in many of my recipes (picked up from a local brewing shop) --- and have further heated some of it at higher temps to kill the enzymes and end up with non-diastatic rye malt (red and chocolate) which I use for flavouring / sweetening. There is a definite flavour difference between the barley and the rye that I have used, so I would expect the same from trying wheat or rice varieties as well.
It's really interesting to read about the differences in timing for "malting" vs "sprouting" --- and it is a pleasant surprise that it starts so quickly. This is definitely a thread to follow...
White rye malt, crystal rye malt, red rye malt...
What's the difference?
When I looked online I did find breweries selling the malted wholegrains but not red rye malt, only the other two. That's why I'm making my own following Dabrownman's primer. But not quite sure on the differences and their affects.
There is barley malt and rye malt. One can get malted wheat as well. It is the process of spouting and drying the grains before grinding them into flour. I think diastatic or non diastatic is whether the enzymes are still alive or not so it depends on how much they've been heated up in the drying process.
That's the gist of it. If you want more info then Dabrownman has given some links below of his process of which I'm following.
I'm not sure when they talk of malts for different grains exactly how long they've been left to sprout and I don't know how they get liquid barley malt. Until today I've been adding the liquid barley malt into my Borodinsky breads as that is very easy to find. But I've decided to go for the real thing this time.
I buy different malted grains from my local you-brew beer-making supply place, and then toast (if required) and mill them for breads. That saves me from having to sprout or malt the grain myself. They have all kinds of wonderful things, including many barley malts, malted rye and wheats, etc.
but don't use malted grains as a precursor for sprouted grain flour. The malting process goes much further and produces much more diastatic enzymes in the grain. Sprouted grain for flour only goes far enough for the first tip of the sprout to be exposed and diastatic enzymes aren't nearly as prevalent as in malted grains.
Paul
Good to know!
Wendy
But they call it Crystal Rye Malt (there is one other type too but can't remember the name however nothing about red rye malt). I'm not sure if it's exactly the same thing so decided to make it myself.
I have crystal malt (correction: barley); that is malted grain that has been fairly lightly toasted, so I expect a crystal rye malt would be about what you want - lightly toasted (non-diastatic) rye malt. Ask them for a couple of grains to taste. And when you get into it, taste a whole bunch of their different malts and see if you would like them in bread! I have one that is a special hull-less barley, toasted to such a dark brown it looks (and tastes) like tiny coffee beans. I use that instead of instant coffee or cocoa powder in dark rye bread.
since it's been forever since I brewed beer and my memory has issues, but if I recall correctly the stage of roasting / heating / drying that we are calling "red rye malt" will be referred to as "crystal" or "caramel" or "amber" --- all depending on the malt house that is making it. The stage is basically in the temperature and moisture range where the internal sugars of the grain kernel are caramelizing (hence, the "caramel" name), and crystalizing (hence, the "crystal" name), and so develop a warmer more "amber" or even "red" colouration.
Continuing on with the roasting / heating / drying brings out darker colours and flavours, and you end up with "chocolate" or "coffee" or eventually "black" malts.
You'll most often see the variety of names in the references to barley malts (since they are more common in public use due to home or craft brewing), but there are a few malt houses that have special rye malts with their own nomenclature too. The diastatic (or base or standard or mash --- and I'm sure that there are other names) malt of barley, rye, and wheat are all pretty commonly available and used, and most public sources will have the chocolate rye available, but the "red" rye is not often used in beers (more in distilleries) and so it isn't as easy to source.
What I found with a few minutes of searching (since you've got me curious about this) were these:
http://www.briess.com/food/Processes/maltclasses.php
http://www.onebeer.net/grainchart.html
http://blog.eckraus.com/what-is-diastatic-power-definition-chart
I hope you don't mind me saving them here - I've got this thread bookmarked since it's got your information and experiences in it as well as the links to dabrownman's --- and I like to keep it all together.
Thanks for getting this practice in to the current threads - there are most likely a few of us who will be following you and DAB down this path at some point. Strong thoughts that you get happily past the scent and continue on mould-free!
I could have purchased already malted grains and have gone for the crystal rye malt as the closest to red rye malt which is what I'm looking for. But i would have missed all those "lovely" smells :)
Good to know! Thank you IceDemeter. And thank you for the links with the explanation. Terminology can be very confusing indeed. I did successfully malt some spelt grains a few months ago but for my rye bread to become Borodinsky i really need red rye malt.
I'm very interested in the dark and chocolate malts one can get and can only imagine what they would be like in bread. Flavours must be amazing. And the projects go on...
Feel free to store anything here. My posts are for me to learn and for anyone else to learn from and/or contribute.
Here are a couple of photos of the Pumpernickel bread that is on the rise right now. The first picture is the dry mixture of rye chops (bottom left quadrant), white (Maris Otter) barley malt (top left quadrant), crystal or 'red' barley malt (top right quadrant) and the lovely special dark hull-less barley malt, along with a bit of salt. The dough (or paste) is what it looks like after mixing with a rye sour, water and fresh sprouted rye grains. Smells wonderful... :)
I can only imagine. That is a very useful comparison photo. Thank you Lazy Loafer.
Please do share the completed bread. I'm glad i started this thread.
24hoi]urs from getting wet. This is a 7 grain sprouted mix that is ready for drying and and then milling
Rye malt will look like this in 4-5 days where the intial 3 rootlets will be 3-4 times the length of the seed but but the one main thicher shoot that comes out from the same end as the rootlets will be the length of the seed itself and ready to be dried and roasted to tun red and then ground
Here are some primers on how to make red rye malt
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49036/and-you-wonder-why-its-called-red-rye-malt
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27954/making-red-rye-malt
Happy malting Abe
Your primer is what I'm following.
So far it's behaving as expected and right on target.
Red rye malt is non-diastatic as it's been roasted to the extent the enzymes are not live. Have I understood this correctly?
What difference does diastatic and non-diastatic have on the dough itself?
Amylase enzymes are produced by the plant as it sprouts because the stored energy in the seed is starch (carbohydrate) and plants can't eat that they need sugars so the enzymes produced act as catalysts to help break the protein bonds of the long sugar chains of the starch so that the sugars the plant needs are there for it to metabolize and grow. So the enzymes are denatured instead fo killed by high heat so that they can no longer so their job. So the amylase enzymes are doing for the plant what we want them to do in the flour to make the exact same food the exact same way for our wee beasties to feed on once the flour gets wet.
Red malt doesn't do much for the dough other than to color it and flavor it. It is a whole grain flour that has been toasted so I put it in the 'Toady' category and treat it like flour for hydration purposes. it is a traditional ingredient for Russian rye breads of course and without it they aren't Russian rye breads. But Lucy chucks it into all kinds breads to improve their flavor and or color.
White malt has a lot more effect on dough. For those of us that mill grain at home, whole grains don't need any added malt, but the sifted white flour does since the natural enzymes are mainly found in the bran and germ portions sifted out and the ground up seed isn't going to be producing any more:-) The amount to add to un-malted white patent flours of less than 72% extraction is about 6 tenths of 1% to make sue-re there are enough amylase enzymes to feed the wee beasties.
Rye breads are different entirely when it comes to crumb structure and it is the amylase enzymes producing too much sugar that destroys the crumb instead of too much protease activity that eats the gluten structure in other breads. So too much amylase activity is bad and letting it ferment too long can just make rye bread sink in the middle.
Some people add white malt to breads they want o be sweeter or might need to rise 3 times or extraordinarily high like pannetone. I have read that adding a teaspoon of white malt is like adding a quarter cup of sugar to the mix and the wee beasties love food more than anything.
I don't have that much need for white malt since most of the patent flour i buy is already malted at the mill but I do use red malt quite a bit.
There are over 30 different proteins in flour and at least that many enzymes so white malt brings most of the enzymes incuding the gluten eating protease
Good luck with the malting Abe
What are the grains supposed to smell like day 3 onwards? They're sprouting alright but have a slight sickly smell to them. Sickly sweet. I am concerned as one has to be careful with rye rot.
I realised that I've washed them and covered them each time with no airing time.
I'm concerned. Should i press ahead?
if they get white fuzzy mold then toss Don't ask how I know this:-)
Given them a good rinse, airing a little then back goes on the lid (not quite as tightly this time).
Thank you Dabrownman. Alleviated my concerns and we're back on track.
I'll toss if i see any white mold.
I won't ask :D
light side of red malts as they go. Double chocolate malt is nearly black. Crystal malt is used to make a light lager beer and not nearly dark enough for authentic Russian Rye bread. Guinness is chocolate malt. I make my malt much darker today than when this picture was taken. Watch the sprout at 4 maybe 5 days it should be the length of teh seed and ready to dry and roast.