April 6, 2016 - 2:54pm
What causes this? Crumbly bread SOS!
Sorry, I don't know what this phenomenon is called. What is missing from my dough to cause this? It's hard to make sandwiches when the top crumbles off. Thanks!!
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Sorry, I don't know what this phenomenon is called. What is missing from my dough to cause this? It's hard to make sandwiches when the top crumbles off. Thanks!!
What's your recipe / method? What kind of flour are you using?
I *had* the perfect sourdough sandwich bread recipe. I was using my sourdough starter, King Arthur all purpose flour, eggs, salt, butter and water. Beautiful loaves every time. Then I found out my daughter was allergic to all wheat except Einkorn and egg whites. So I've replaced the eggs with chia seeds plus egg yolks and changed to einkorn flour. I can't seem to get it right. It's always crumbling and falling apart now :( I've tried adding sugar & more egg yolks.
The specifics:
I feed my starter in the morning. That night I make a sponge from the active starter with 1 cup of starter, 2 cups water, 3 cups einkorn flour. The next morning I add to the sponge: 2 chia eggs (1.5 Tblsp chia seeds ground plus a bit of water), 2 tsp salt, 1 tablespoon of sugar, 4 egg yolks, 6 Tablespoons of softened butter, and I add enough flour to make the dough stop being sticky to the touch. I let the dough rise in an oiled & covered bowl until it doubles. Then I transfer to oiled bread pans and let it double once again. Bake at 375 for 35 minutes.
What do you think? I know einkorn is a bit harder to figure out, but there must be a way.
I had the same problem with all my sandwich loaves. I contacted the bakers hotline at King Author Flour. This was their response
Thanks for contacting us here at King Arthur Flour about the crumbly yeast bread results you're getting. One key is to use some form of potato in your recipe that will help retain moisture. If your recipe doesn't use potato, consider adding a couple tablespoons potato flour or 1/4 cup mashed potato flakes. If you have potatoes, boil one in water and use that lukewarm water as the liquid in your recipe. If your recipe already has some form of potato in it, be careful about the flour measurement. Using more flour than necessary will result in a dry loaf of bread, as well as over-baking yeast bread. Only add enough flour to get a soft and supple dough. The dough should feel soft and supple - push on it during the mixing / kneading process and it should feel like pressing on your cheek with your index finger. That soft and supple dough will result in a soft and supple loaf of bread! I have also heard adding a couple tablespoons of oil will helpThe problem may lie in the new ingredient. You replaced the whole eggs with chia seeds and egg yolks, correct? Why not just replace the whole eggs with egg yolks? By adding the chia seeds you've fundamentally changed the recipe.
Now, I've never baked with chia seeds so I'm not speaking from experience here, but I have made chia pets when I was young, and I remember those seeds soaking up a lot of water and forming a nice gritty chia paste.
It would seem to me that the best way to modify your beloved sourdough recipe would be to modify it as little as possible. So switch the wheat to einkorn (and adjust hydration as necessary) and switch from whole eggs to egg yolks. Leave out the chia seeds and see what you get. Good luck!
Cheers!
Trevor
The bit of potato flour (just a tablespoon or so) is probably a good idea. For some of my gluten free breads I use either xanthan gum or ground psyllium husk as binders instead of eggs, so they might be an option too for replacing the eggs. But again, just a bit.
I'm not sure about KA's advice regarding kneading. Chad Robertson says einkorn has 'delicate' gluten, meaning that overworking it will probably cause it to break down.
They soak up 4 times their weight in water so soak them first. Chia seeds gel when wet and become slimy, not gritty. Folding them in to the mix will provide the extra liquid it needs not to be dry ans crumbly. Using potato water and potato flakes is also a good idea.
Happy baking
I didn't realize chia seeds soaked up that much water (even though I knew they were thirsty). The recipe probably just needs extra water to compensate then.
Update: Though I still see no reason to add an ingredient to what was otherwise considered a "perfect" recipe. When trying to replicate a recipe as closely as possible, it's best to minimize changes as much as possible. A new ingredient creates a new recipe. An entirely different recipe. Which is fine if you're looking for a new recipe, but not if you're trying to make a bread as close as possible to the previous version.
Cheers!
Trevor
I haven't worked with einkorn but it is a whole grain and that means it has a few quirks that require a different way to handle it. I work with hard,red spring wheat.
First of all, what is happening in your loaf is that after baking, the bits of bran in the whole grain flour are absorbing moisture from the crumb and effectively drying it out so it just cracks on day 2. There are several techniques that can prevent this. First, all the einkorn flour in the dough needs time to absorb its quota of water before being baked. This means that the dough is mixed with enough water to make it sticky and then allowed to rest until it is tacky. Usually this takes about 30-90 minutes tho I have retarded dough overnight in the refrigerator. THis allows all the bran bits to absorb water and remain soft after it is baked and less likely to become crumbly .That is one thing that is happening.
You didn't mention if you kneaded the dough to windowpane. Please search on this site if you aren't sure what that means. With whole grain flour it is especially important to develop the starchy portion of the dough as well as the gluten and that means kneading (by hand or machine) to windowpane. During this time, refrain from adding much flour because all that flour will not be hydrated and will contribute to crumb crumbling later. You can dampen your hands and handle it like a rye dough (which is sticky no matter how much flour you add-or better be or you will be baking a brick).
I hope these ideas are helpful.
In terms of allergies, remember that einkorn is still wheat and generally a person with a wheat allergy will generally react to anything in the same (wheat/grass) family eventually. You may want to start introducing some wheat free bakery so that if it becomes necessary, the transition may be easier. The hardest part of gluten free (wheat free) baking is trying to make everything behave just like wheat. There are different techniques to use to get the deliciousness out of the different flours.
Have fun!
A few comments were posted while I was composing and I also re-read your post. If you r daughter is allergic to egg whites, just don't add any egg as there is always some egg white clinging to the egg yolk.
Egg yolks add lecithin that acts to enrich like oil. Just add a tablespoon or so of oil.
Adding hydrated chia or flax seeds will certainly add nutritionally and for moisture so feel free to do that.
Potato water,flour or starch are also good components, as is any moist vegetable like pureed pumpkin or squash.
Taking a look at A BakEr's comments about einkorn becoming sticky, I wonder if it behaves more like rye dough.
Here are some posts about einkorn:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/42062/einkorn-bakes
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43175/einkorn-progress
So my original advice to the original post was to knead to windowpane based on my whole wheat experience. It sounds like einkorn behaves more like WW in that it needs to hydrated and given time to absorb the water but it behaves like rye in that it does not require kneading to windowpane, proofs readily, overproofs easily and needs to bake thoroughly and slowly to maintain its structure. Is that a good summary? If yes, then this really is very different from the original bread.
Interesting and I hope helpful to you, Anions. Einkorn may be closer to the gluten free breads I have made in terms of texture and handling. I wonder if it would benefit from the addition of a gum for structure and flexibility like psyllium husk or xanthan gum?
Thank you all so much! So many different ideas to try :)! I think I will start with A BakEr's recipe and see how that turns out :) I think I am adding way too much flour from some of your responses. Einkorn is just so different from King Arthur all-purpose flour. I can't wait to get this figured out. Thank you!!!
Yep, I have AP Einkorn by Jovial. I'll let you know when I try it if it works out or not :)