Crumpet inconsistencies, please help.
EDIT: I got a decent crumpet http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43814/final-crumpet-recipe
If this post is too long to read, just jump to the questions (in bold).
I am attempting to make crumpets but have come across contradictory advice, even from people who seem to know what they are doing. As a beginner I am in kind of a bind because of this.
I've been fairly succesfull with breads, took me twice at most to get it nice but crumpets are eluding me, kicking my ass.
I used fresh ingredients (newly bought dried yeast, bicarb and baking powder) and measured them correctly.
Firstly I'd like to offer some context.
I'm dutch and I went to the south of england for 8 days on the 21st of august.
On the evening before the day of departure back to the netherlands we bought a packet of crumpets from sainsbury's to eat because A: we needed to have something to eat during the busride as we had run out of "eierkoeken" (egg breadcake?) and "krentenbollen" (currant buns) B: we needed to spend our last pounds C: I had heard good things about them.
In the bus we ate half of them before we discovered that they're supposed to be toasted.
We enjoyed them anyway, we were hungry and slathered them in butter and marmalade and jam.
My mother said; the flavour is like the pancakes we make in the netherlands.
I completely agree.
But the texture is something I had not come across yet, it's moist yet not undercooked (more moist than say the crumb of the ciabatta I've had), slightly chewy, and the cross section looks like a cave full of stalacmites with holes on the top.
It's very hard to describe and I can't find anything that it compares to.
We ate the ones that were left the morning after we came back to the netherlands. We toasted them and it really makes them something else.
Perfect comfort food.
With a birthday party on the second of october I wanted to make crumpets (thinking "how hard can it be") for something to accompany tea.
I bought some metal rings suitable for cooking and used a non stick pan that fits 3 rings at a time.
I heat both the pan and the rings before pouring batter in and clean and grease the rings before every pouring of batter.
I've been trying to make them for almost 2 weeks now, I've tried 5 different ways up untill now and haven't got a result that A: I liked the flavour (except for the 3rd one) and texture of and B: begins to come close to the sainsbury's ones.
The silver lining is that I've always been able to produce "crumpets" with enough holes on top, something a lot of people seem to be struggeling with.
They all look crumpety but the flavour and texture is unsatisfactory.
The first recipe I tried was this one http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2013/mar/21/how-to-cook-perfect-crumpets
thinking "this person has done her research".
This is a mix of strong and plain flour.
The crumb was something between a dense sponge cake and holey bread, it did have holes on top but not the stalacmite inner texture. The holes did not reach further than halfway down most of the time.
The flavour was absolutely vile, first of all they were way too salty and second of all they had this very pronounced metallic tang.
It wasn't a measuring mistake either, I just did not appreciate the flavour.
After googling "the taste of baking soda" after my second recipe I read something that said that the metallic tang is neutralised by an acidic component in the batter, if your batter does not have an acidic component you will taste a metallic tang that some people find undesirable.
Q1; this recipe does not have an acidic component, so why add baking soda at all and not just baking powder? Why does it seem like other people aren't bothered by the taste of unneutralised baking soda?
Q2; I left the salt out on the second try (more on that later), does it contribute anything to the leavening/raising process or is it just for flavour?
The second recipe I tried was this one
http://www.redonline.co.uk/food/recipes/paul-hollywood-crumpets
also a mix of strong and plain flour.
They were a bit better flavourwise but still a long way off. Again that metallic tang but not as strong.
I left out the salt completely so I could more accurately taste the rest of the flavours.
Texture wise this one was even more like sponge cake than the first recipe, even though it was completely cooked on the inside.
There were enough holes but they were pretty shallow, about 5 mm deep.
The third recipe I tried was this one https://honeyandspice.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/perfect-holey-crumpets/ which is a yeast only (no bicarb or any other chemical leavener) 100% strong flour crumpet.
I was actively trying to avoid using baking soda this time around and thought that if it could be done without chemical leavener then why bother.
The taste came very close to the sainsbury's ones, they indeed tasted like pancakes.
The texture was very dissapointing, the inside was like paste (like a pancake) no matter how long or at what temperature I cooked them.
I got holes on top but they were only 1 or 2 mm deep.
The batter was also too thin so I tried again with less liquid.
I got a pastelike inside again, holes were a bit deeper (about 4 mm this time) but certainly not good enough.
I also did not feel that I got enough gluten development, it just felt like a yeasted pancake.
With the first two recipes the batter almost doubles in size when you leave it to sit in a warm place for the first time. This one did not seem to rise at all. The yeast I used was newly bought and far from it's use by date.
The other recipes start with a thick dough (not liquid enough to call batter) and after it has had a rise you add more water and chemical leavener (bicarb)
Q3; I suspect I really need a leavener aside from yeast to achieve a stalacmitey inside, do you agree? Any suggestions?
After this dissapointment I researched the ingredients in sainsbury's crumpets hoping it would shed some light on the issue.
The ingredient list is as follows; Fortified British Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Water, Sugar, Spirit Vinegar, Yeast, Raising Agents: Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate; Salt, Acidity Regulator: Glucono-delta-lactone; Preservative: Potassium Sorbate.
A few things stand out, firstly the spirit vinegar: this is an acidic component and therefore interacts with the bicarb (called Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate in this ingredient list)
Q4; does adding vinegar improve the texture for crumpets? Does it improve the raising power?
The second thing that stands out are the raising agents (Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate), they are exactly the same ones that are in dr. Oetker Backing powder here in the netherlands.
I did not taste any metallic tang in the sainsbury's crumpets,
Q5; Am I right in assuming that the vinegar and the Disodium Diphosphate neutralised the metallic tang in the bicarb?
Although there is yeast in the crumpets I did not taste it as strongly as I have done in the recipes I have cooked.
The third recipe that I tried came closest to tasting like the sainsburys crumpets, now that I have checked the amount of yeast it appears that that recipe, although it only uses yeast for raising power, also uses the least amount of yeast of all the recipes I tried. Which makes me wonder.
Q6; how much yeast do I really need to use, what is the minimum in your opinion?
Seeing that the raising agents are the same as in dr oekter baking powder I decided to search for crumpet recipes that use baking powder. Turns out some do, but they go about adding it in very different ways. Amounts varied drastically as well.
-One way of doing it that I found is to combine all of the ingredients in the recipe all at once in the beginning and letting it sit for an hour, and then start the cooking immediately.
Recipes here; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/recipes/8902742/Crumpets-recipe.html
and here http://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2009/09/18/butters-best-friend-crumpets/
I did not choose to do this because I was afraid of losing the gas that bp produces as it sits seeing as it starts to react immediately when it comes in contact with moisture because it comes with its own acid.
Q6; is that suspicion correct? Or is it actually beneficial to combine everything in the beginning (and forgoing a second rise)?
-Another way of doing it that I found is comparable to the first recipe I tried (but instead of adding bicarb you use bp), you make a dough without the chemical leavener, let it rise, then add the chemical leavener with some lukewarm water and combine well, let it sit for a short while (one site said sit it for 15 minutes, and yet another site said only to sit if for as long as it takes you to heat the pan and the rings) to let it bubble a bit and then start cooking the batter.
Recipes here; http://food52.com/blog/10073-how-to-make-crumpets-at-home http://britishfood.about.com/od/eorecipes/r/Recipe-Traditional-English-Crumpets.htm
There's even one site that said to add the bp without lukewarm water, just sprinkle the powder on the batter and mix. I was afraid it would clump or not completely mix evenly so I did not use this method. Recipe here http://britishfood.about.com/od/eorecipes/r/Recipe-Traditional-English-Crumpets.htm
I eventually chose to do the 2 step rise method, I used the first steps of the first recipe I tried but when it was time to add the bicarb I added bp in lukewarm water instead and let it sit for 15 minutes (which I thought seemed like a nice middle way).
The moment the bp hit the lukewarm water it started to fizz and I facepalmed myself. Ofcourse this happens. I tried again with slighty colder water and got a little less fizz but still, that gas is supposed to be in my dough so I hurried and mixed it in.
As for the amount of bp used, I used the average of what all the recipes recommended per 100gr of flour.
The result was not great, taste was much better than the first time I tried the first recipe and I could not taste any metallic tang. Texture wise it was still lacking. No deep holes, no stalacmitey inside.
Q7: is it a bad idea to forgo the lukewarm water and just add the bp to the dough? Will it mix evenly if I try hard enough?
How would you go about making a crumpet with baking powder?
About the vinegar; is it a good idea to add it, if so when and how much?
Any other advice you can give me?
Thank you in advance, any advice is appreciated.
on a problem I've seen in ages. Well done! I can see the frustration level is high. So first, Sorry, I'm afraid my answer will not be as detailed but it might be helpful to know Baking Powder is supposed to behave in two steps, first to react with the acids and start producing gas, then again when activated by heat. Be sure to add enough batter to the rings. Remember you want to drop them into a toaster.
Second, Crumpets are English Muffins translated in my American grey matter just a little wetter and I would go about them with a waiting step if I included yeast or sourdough as they take time to ferment and get bubbly. (sourdough would eliminate the need for vinegar) I've always been amazed how much vinegar I could add to a recipe and still not taste it. So start out with at least a Tablespoon and throw it into the milk if you can. A little less lemon juice also works. You might also want to try something soured like buttermilk or yoghurt in the recipe as a substitute or diluted with water and then... forget the vinegar.
Salt should not exceed 1.8% of the flour amount, even less when considering that adding soda and Baking soda contribute salty tastes.
Raw dough inside might be more of a temperature problem and I'm more inclined to lower the temperature or use a lid to trap steam when first poured, long before turning them over. Also, depending on your dough hydration and recipe, put the top sides down in the pan first. (if that makes any sense, it does for English muffins) ...And look up English Muffins here on site. Use the heavy bottomed pan.
One way to get more flavour out of the flour is to get it wet and let it sit 8 hours to overnight (18° to 23°C) before adding any other ingredients. You can also try it with just a pinch of yeast adding the Baking Powder, etc. later the next day. :)
If you mix up a batch, make sure you wait at least the 15 min for the flour to hydrate before heating. Some flours require more time and I would even stretch that 15 minutes a little bit myself. I would double it for Einkorn, Kamut or Dinkel flour.
Mini
Note on duplicating recipes... if you were very hungry at the time you first tried them, your memory can be much more flavourful than the original recipe. :)
Firstly, thank you the time to read it.
I'm actually curious about some details regarding the answers you've given me.
Hope you don't mind.
-So it's actually good to leave the batter to rise (after the baking powder has been added) for 15 minutes/longer/shorter before baking/cooking?
How long of a time would you recommend?
-Does the batter need to hydrate again if you add more liquid for the second rise?
(I mean you add most of the liquid in the beginning with the yeast, then rise for a hour or longer, then add more liquid and baking powder)
-It's a waste to lose gas when mixing baking powder with water before adding it to the batter right? Would you recommend adding the bp dry (as is) to the batter? Will it combine evenly if you stir really hard?
-A tablespoon of vinegar per how much flour? (or do you take it as a percentage of something else like the finished volume or as a percentage of overall liquid?)
I might try a buttermilk crumpet after I've made one with vinegar.
No wonder that recipe was too salty, it was 2.4% salt per flour weight instead of a max of 1.8% you recommended. And it had baking soda on top of that, which does indeed taste salty.
As for the recipe that gave me a pasty inside, I've tried putting a lid on it and letting it sit and steam for 15 minutes on low heat. Which weirdly had no effect, I'm now beginning to suspect that they weren't undercooked but pasty because of how much liquid was in the batter.
I mean pancakes are pasty on the inside and yet they are considered cooked right?
I don't see how I could put the top side down in the pan first, it's a liquid batter that's a bit thicker than pancake batter.
-Do you have a recommendation on the minimum amount of yeast that should be used?
You have a point about the hunger though, but the morning after we still liked them.
Although I probably won't like them cold and untoasted if I'm not really hungry.
I was actually expecting that someone would say "It's impossible to duplicate a supermarket crumpet, they use machines and tricks that you can't do at home" but luckily that hasn't happened yet.
I read something about factories using mechanical ways to leaven dough/batter (they pump gas/air into the dough/batter) and part of me fears that's where the incredible stalagmity inside comes from.
But thank you again, your advice has given something to work with already.
"I read something about factories using mechanical ways to leaven dough/batter (they pump gas/air into the dough/batter) and part of me fears that's where the incredible stalagmity inside comes from."
That's the dreadful Chorleywood 'no time' process and, rest assured, it's not where the internal texture of the Sainsbury crumpets came from. That texture was around long before 'food' scientists* developed that abomination in the 1960s.
And you can not only replicate supermarket crumpets at home, you can do better. Supermarket crumpets really aren't that good. Sadly, I can't offer any insight into the process as the couple of attempts I've made didn't come out too well. I think it was more to do with my not getting the temperature of the griddle right rather than anything else, however, as I do recall a friend making superb crumpets on an Aga many years ago. My recipe came with the crumpet rings. If you'd like to add another one to your collection, I'd be happy to copy it out for you.
*They may have been scientists but they certainly weren't working on anything which could honestly be called food.
"I read something about factories using mechanical ways to leaven dough/batter (they pump gas/air into the dough/batter) and part of me fears that's where the incredible stalagmity inside comes from."
That's the dreadful Chorleywood 'no time' process and, rest assured, it's not where the internal texture of the Sainsbury crumpets came from. That texture was around long before 'food' scientists* developed that abomination in the 1960s.
And you can not only replicate supermarket crumpets at home, you can do better. Supermarket crumpets really aren't that good. Sadly, I can't offer any insight into the process as the couple of attempts I've made didn't come out too well. I think it was more to do with my not getting the temperature of the griddle right rather than anything else, however, as I do recall a friend making superb crumpets on an Aga many years ago. My recipe came with the crumpet rings. If you'd like to add another one to your collection, I'd be happy to copy it out for you.
*They may have been scientists but they certainly weren't working on anything which could honestly be called food.
because the daily bread we had came from the supermarket. It was the early 80's in the netherlands, we only ate whole wheat (white was for posh people and considered bad for health) but it was bitter fluff produced by the no time process. My mother baked bread roosters for easter but they were so alien to me I didn't link them with bread.
It wasn't until I was in my early twenties that I tasted real bread.and knew that it was what bread was supposed to be like. My partner (of the time) and I teamed up to bake our first boule, which turned out so tasty that it knocked my socks off.
As it is, the crumpet recipes that I tried tasted worse than the sainsbury's ones. If I can manage to concoct or find a recipe that is better, then that is bonus points :)
If you don't mind sharing the recipe, I'll be delighted to see what's in it.
Up until now I've only cooked crumpets with rings in a pan over a gas stove, temperature control is a bit fiddly and if you don't leave it to heat up enough before ladling in the batter or grease it enough the crumpets will stick or burn. The first crumpet of the batch is always a bit too brown on the bottom the way I go about it.
I doubt that there's much new in this recipe but the quantities may be different from the ones you've tried. There's very little bicarb in it (half a teaspoonful for a 12 crumpet mix) so you shouldn't really be able to taste it.
Regarding the Dr. Oetkar baking powder: the company bought out a UK baking supplies companies a few years ago. We found its products to be far inferior to those of the company it bought out and now won't buy anything under that brand. It was the rubbish marzipan that ruined our Christmas cake which was the last straw.
Anyway, here's the recipe which came with my crumpet rings:
Makes approximately 12 crumpets
Ingredients
250g strong white bread flour
7g sachet of dried active yeast
1/2 teaspoon sea salt
1 teaspoon caster sugar
1/2 teaspoon bicarbonate of soda
100ml water
275ml milk
Method
Heat water and milk until lukewarm.
Seive the flour into a large mixing bowl, add the yeast, sugar, bicarbonate of soda and salt.
With a wooden spoon, mix the milk and water into the flour mixture, then whisk for a few minutes until the batter is formed.
Drape a damp tea towel over the bowl and put in a warm place for about an hour, by which time the mixture should have risen and be full of bubbles.
Generously grease the inside of the crumpet rings and put a knob of butter into a pre-heated, non-stick frying pan.
Place the crumpet rings into the frying pan and add approximately two tablespoons of the mixture into each ring, which should be just under half full.
Cook on a medium to low heat for about 10 minutes, until the surface has bubbled, formed holes and has dried out.
It should be easy to remove each ring as the crumpet should shrink away from the sides. Once the rings have been removed, flip the crumpets for a few seconds so that the tops can brown.
Drench with butter, coat with jam/curd/cheese/marmite/whatever takes your fancy and stuff your face (that's me saying that, not the recipe!)
I must have another go at this myself.
What's the difference between good baking powder and dr. oetker baking powder? Is it just pure leavening power or is flavour also an issue?
The bicarb to flour ratio in the recipe is actually quite normal, other recipes that I've tried had something like that too. What I find interesting about your recipe is the fact that both yeast and bicarb are added in the beginning and all of the liquid is incorporated in the beginning as well. It doesn't have a two step process which on one hand makes it easier to make but on the other hand I don't know if that makes a good texture. There was another recipe that had the 1 step process so I will probably try this concept at least once. Thank you for the recipe, I hope to find the time to make it before the 2nd of october.
If you have another go at making it yourself, something that helps tremendously in making crumpets is giving the pan/griddle and rings time to heat up together. Best results I had was when greasing both pan and rings at the same time and starting the pre heating process when the greased rings were already placed in the pan. When I did this the crumpets did not stick to the rings, they shrunk away from them and the sides had more potential to become cooked quicker.
An upsides to making crumpets is that, even though it's more effort than buying them, they freeze marvelously. Even when thawed and toasted the texture and flavour don't seem to be aversely affected.
I wasn't specifically denigrating Dr. Oetkar's baking powder, never having used it, it was a comment on my experience of the general quality of the company's products. In hindsight it was probably inappropriate as it didn't really add anything to the debate. However, to me, baking powder is a mixture of bicarbonate of soda and cream of tartar in a 3:4 ratio, which is what I've always used when baking powder is called for. I'd never heard of disodium diphosphate, apparently used instead of cream of tartar by both Dr. O. and Mr. Sainsbury, but it seems that it's E450(i), which is produced in a purely industrial process from a cocktail of other chemicals and it has several known side effects, including causing digestive disorders and hyperactivity. Cream of tartar, or E336, on the other hand, is a naturally occurring acid, found in many fruits, is produced commercially as a by product of wine production and has no known side effects. I'll stick to my home brew, thanks!
I can't comment on the pros and cons of the one-step process versus the two-step, although I would have thought that, as in bread making, the longer the process takes the better the result is likely to be, so if the two-stage process takes longer I'd expect it to be preferable. I seem to recall reading somewhere that adding the bicarb earlier in a process may result in a reduction in its detectability in the finished product but can't say how authoritative the source was.
I can believe that heating the rings thoroughly would make for a better result. Aluminium, which is what my rings are made of, is a superb heat conductor, however, so I wouldn't expect it to take long for them to get up to temperature, given good contact with the pan/griddle.
I think my problems probably stem from not really knowing how to use my griddle. I have one of these: http://tinyurl.com/p2ehu6b which I use on a five burner gas hob with a central wok ring, which is the most logic place to heat the griddle as it puts out a lot of heat over a wide area. Just how much heat the griddle needs to come up to the correct temperature to cook the crumpets, what that temperature is, how long it needs to become evenly heated to that temperature and what level the ring needs to be set to once the griddle is up to heat to keep it there are all things I've yet to discover.
But it seems that that's the least of my worries if Walter Banfield, quoted by Elizabeth David in English Bread and Yeast Cookery, is correct. He says: "Provided suitable flour is used, these honeycomby, labyrinthine structures are fairly simple to make. The idea that crumpets are difficult is not uncommon because if flour unsuitable for the process is used grotesque, unfair creations result. That is, one either makes good crumpets or very bad ones."
Have you looked at Elizabeth David's recipe? It calls for 1/2 tsp bicarb to 450g flour (plain and strong in equal quantities), less than the recipe I have. It's also a two-stage recipe and includes two tablespoons of oil, an ingredient she acknowledges is unorthodox but which she says improves volume and flavour.
References:
Disodium diphosphate: http://myadditives.co.uk/archives/25426
Cream of tartar: http://myadditives.co.uk/archives/25187
About flour... A bit OT, but I've found that some flours make brilliant profiteroles whereas others don't. Guess that there are recipes that are more sensitive to the ingredients than others.
I'd expect a finer-milled, lower protein flour to produce a better profiterole. Is there a particular flour you favour for the job?
The Waitrose plain flour is my go to flour for choux pastry.
Others I've tried leave me with holes in the bottom of my profiteroles / eclairs / buns. The Tesco plain flour (not the value flour - I only use that one for dusting work benches etc) is the worst culprit for that.
Have you tried any of the Shipton Mill flours? I've been buying from them for years but have only just decided to include some of its cake and pastry flour in my next order. http://tinyurl.com/pg6jtrf
But I probably will at some point. :-) I'd have to use up most of what I have in my cupboard so that I can place an order big enough to get the free P&P. I've also found a local mill that I'm planning on checking out the next time I head out that way.
I'm still rather new to baking bread, so still trying out different flours to see what works for me. Currently I buy most of my flour in Waitrose, but I do like the Tesco stoneground wholemeal. It's really very nice.
Their flour from older species of wheat, spelt, emmer and einkorn are well worth trying at some time. They're not as easy to work with as modern wheat but they leave it standing for flavour, IMO. I think you mentioned spelt, so you may already know that one. I think emmer and einkorn are even tastier. Mixing some white spelt, or even some semolina, with the wholemeal version of one or more of the others for sandwich loaves, so with a tin to support the dough, makes using them easier and produces superb bread.
I don't have a 450i allergy and it doesn't seem to make me hyperactive but it does give me some concern that it lists digestive disorder as a side effect. I have an ulcer which has been acting up lately probably due to stress, and therefore my stomach is very sensitive to what I put into it at these times. I don't use baking powder often, but it's a good idea to keep an eye on it.
I can easily get my hands on cream of tartar from the local asian supermarket, bicarb I already bought, so it wouldn't be a problem to make traditional baking powder if I combined those two in the appropriate ratio.
I can understand your griddle problem, most crumpet recipes are written for people who use pans (which have a single heat source in the centre) or hotplates/electric griddles which takes out all of the guesswork. The only thing you can do with your griddle is have some trial and error sessions and jot down what seems to work. You may waste a bit of batter (so make plenty) or even an entire batch but in the end you'll have some cooked crumpets.
My advice is preheat on medium low, cook crumpets on low, prepare to toss first crumpet. If the crumpets aren't completely cooked through in 7 minutes the heat is too low. If you don't get holes on top that either means the heat is too low or the batter too thick. The batter should be full of bubbles, the best texture I got was when spooning the batter into the rings was like ladling in clouds (slightly elastic, sticky, bubbly).
I've seen mention of David's recipe but I haven't looked at it, oil surprises me since I've not come across it in the 25+ recipes I've read. But oil is sometimes beneficial in some types of bread, my mom uses it and it makes her italian bread more delicious. Oil is something I will add to a trial crumpet recipe, so is vinegar (have to do read up on the amounts first though).
I don't exactly know what makes a good flour for crumpets but so far the recipe I've tried with 100% plain flour was horrible, I feel it needs some strong flour for nice holes to develop. The fine cake like crumb is not cutting it, and it makes it difficult to cook the crumpets all the way through, additionally the holes on top won't be deep enough. I'm inclined to say that a ratio of 50-50 of plain to strong flour is good, so is 40-60. Maybe even 100% strong flour if you're willing to try it.
As for the actual quality of the flour, I really don't know. I've only used supermarket home brand plain flour and the only strong flour I can get seems to be a luxury brand. I just don't have enough experience to judge the quality.
I think you're right about trial and error. In the absence of someone who can show me exactly what's needed it's about all I can do. I'll keep your description of the batter in mind ('like ladling in clouds' is a great simile - very poetic), especially as I usually make pancake batter too thick initially, as I can never believe that anything as runny as it should be could possibly be right. I always end up diluting the batter and it always produces better pancakes.
I think I might try David's recipe when I get around to crumpeting. We usually look on crumpets as a winter treat, traditionally toasting them in front of an open fire. I use it in all of my bread so I'll have to try making them with spelt flour, as at least part of the mix if not alone.
I used one today and greatly recommend it.
Thanks to your advice (and that of others) I was able to make some headway in crumpet making.
I've made something today that was superior to the other recipes I tried before, by adding oil, vinegar and using baking powder instead of baking soda.
The post is here if you want to read it; http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43636/baking-powder-crumpet-experiment-raising-problem-google-didnt-help
I too make pancake batter too thick whenever I make it, and as time goes by it tends to get thicker so I always end up adding more milk to the mix. Maybe it's because I don't let the mix rest as much as it needs, my mom gives it 30 minutes to 45 minutes so maybe I should too.
If you do go crumpeting and use David's recipe, keep in mind that they will taste metallic because they don't have an acidic ingredient in the mix to go along with the bicarb. If you don't mind the taste because you're used to the flavour of bicarb then just disregard this advice.
Also if you can, use non stick crumpet rings or non stick egg rings that are deep enough. Although most of my crumpets today didn't stick to the rings, some did stick horribly and it was a fight getting them out with a toothpick (as not to scratch the rvs rings) over a hot hotplate.
It occurs to me that crumpets have been around for hundreds of years, which neither baking powder nor bicarb has. So I looked back through Elizabeth David to see what the writers of yore she quotes said about making crumpets. Essentially, they said that crumpets are made using flour, milk, water and yeast, sometimes with the addition of two eggs to each quart of batter. Warming the flour in the oven (140°C for seven to 10 minutes) seems to be generally recommended. Being a bit of a traditionalist, I think I'll try making them without any baking powder or bicarb.
Whatever the truth of the matter, David had a palate, so I can't believe she would have promote any recipe that had a metallic taste. And it's very hard to believe that all of the other people who have published recipes using bicarb would have done likewise. I'm sure that there must be some other, as yet unidentified, factor which is causing this problem.
Haven't read your other post as yet. Off to do so now. Thanks for the link.
that crumpets without chemical leavener have a better flavour. But it's difficult to get enough holes on the inside unless you know how it's done.
What could neutralise the bicarb is using unpasteurised milk. I just used semi skimmed uht milk (which has no sourness at all) whilst "raw" aka straight from the cow (unheated) milk is much more sour. Raw milk is illegal here so my choices are in the pasteurized milk department and because I'm not a regular milk user I bought uht milk that comes in 200 ml packs. I have been told it's not uncommon to use unpasteurised milk in british home baking.
I don't know what's up either, but if science is right there has to be an acidic ingredient in the mix otherwise you end up with metallic flavours. I could not identify any acidic ingredient right off the bat in the "milk, flour, yeast, water" lineup. Of course if you let some flour sit with water for a while it would start to turn sour eventually, but apart from sourdough crumpets nobody mentions this. I have an old english cookbook called "good things england" published in 1932 and their crumpet recipe has both bicarb and cream of tartar which acts as the acid.
It's a bit of a mystery to me, I must be missing something about the recipes that call for no apparent acid.
"I just used semi skimmed uht milk..."
I have no idea whether or not the lack of fat and/or the heat treatment would affect the bicarb action but I am a regular milk user and I think UHT milk is foul stuff. I'd never use it in baking.
Purely in the spirit of leaving no stone unturned, why not try using non-UHT, full-cream milk (or 'milk', as I call it) in a batch? Even if it doesn't help with the bicarb problem it can't help but improve the flavour of the crumpets.
Raw milk isn't easy to find here. I know that some people manage to get hold of it but I've never seen any on sale. Both buttermilk and yoghurt are a source of acid, however. Buttermilk provides the acid for making Irish soda bread, so perhaps that would be worth trying.
Along similar lines... Just use ordinary full fat milk.
I think for raw milk you'd have to go to a farm shop / farmer's market or get friendly with someone who makes cheese.
Buttermilk is karnemelk btw ;-)
is considered a health food here, my mother loves it when it's hot out. I can't drink the quantities that it comes in, it's usually only available in 1 litre packs. But when it comes in half litre packs I do try them.
I remember drinking the whey that got separated when I made my own cheese (paneer) last year december. I used buttermilk for that as well, and some trials with lemon juice or vinegar. I recommend it if you like the taste of paneer, making your own is really easy and the result is so much better than storebought.
It's sold in half pint (284ml) tubs.
Ever thought about freezing it in portions?
I just googled it, it does separate after you thaw it but if you spin it in a blender it recombines a bit.
Thanks for the idea.
I was going to use fresh milk anyway when baking for others, but for these trials I just use uht 200ml packs because I hate to waste food. I've never given it any thought that it would influence the chemical reactions of the leavener
I grew up with fresh milk, but then when we were older my mother switched to uht so we got used to that as well. I still prefer fresh milk's taste but I don't think uht is foul.
I could try a batch with buttermilk, it's readily available here.
I've been baking half batches (the recipes scale easily) so I don't end up with massive amounts of crumpets whenever I bake again.
"...I don't think uht is foul."
As I said in reference to bicarb: it's surprising what you can get used to.
Bicarb tastes like soapy metal, uht milk tastes sweet even if it is inferior to fresh milk.
But you can't argue about taste they say.
Brainstorming here....
The tap water standard where I live is 7,5 to 8,2 pH, which is what they consider normal. I don't know if there is anything wrong with the water that comes out of my tap, I haven't noticed anything.
The baking soda brand I have is this one http://www.india-store.de/images/thumbnail/produkte/xlarge/food01/002/lifestyle_bicarbonate_of_soda.jpg and I think it's fresh because I bought it 3 weeks ago. I can't find another brand in normal stores but I could check with the farmacy.
I've never used baking soda for things other than baking either.
I've never heard of using carbonated water for the batter (some people use beer though) but it's worth a google. Some people use brown beer in their pancake batter and in their "oliebol" dough (kind of like an early version of the donut).
Are you asking me if the colour of my flour is green? Or if it's organic?
I tasted some crumpets I made today (made with 1 tsp bs, 2.5tbsp vinegar to 250gr flour and the other usual ingredients) together with my partner, the first thing he said is "they taste weird, kind of has a soapy mouthfeel and flavour", to me they weren't so bad in comparison with the first crumpets I ever made (which did not have an acid) but I could also taste the metallic soapy flavour. My guess is that dutch people just aren't used to the flavour of baking soda (even when there's an acid in the mix) because it's rarely used here.
I have some health issues that are being treated (slow thyroid and anxiety) but I don't think they affect your sense of taste. I did have liver damage 4 years ago (as a result of taking the wrong vitamin supplements) but it should be way gone now. As for the medications, if I have the time I can always read the user guides again. I don't think it's the health issues or the medications though since my partner (who does not have the same issues or medications) seems to pick up on the metallic soapy taste as well.
Thanks for brainstorming with me :)
Harvested too early.
I've noticed that self-rising flour is also not easy to find or common in Austria. When baking powder is used, Mil tends to cut it in half or use just a "knife point" measure when needed. I think whipped egg whites are the leavening of choice in quick breads and cakes here. Soda is sold here in tiny little packages called Natron (Na) and a package holds maybe a Tablespoon. I usually bring a box or two from the "states" for my baking, cleaning, deodorising and bee sting needs. I also use it to polish car paint scratches, and reflector clouding. Polish silver and neutralise strong vinegar solutions and to remove stains from white marble and tile grout. :)
You're in Austria for a while?
Sodium is called natrium in the netherlands, but both terms are used interchangeably which leads to confusion sometimes. As for tiny packages, they do that here with dried yeast (7 grams per package), baking powder (16 grams per package) and vanilla sugar.
We can get baking soda from the import store (in this case an asian supermarket) which carries the lifestyle brand from the UK and the arm and hammer brand from the US.
I finally made something I'm happy with thanks to your advice http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43814/final-crumpet-recipe
with the crumpet problems. I've finally made something that works for me and I thought I would let you know http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43814/final-crumpet-recipe
crumpets are horrible rubbery things with lots of vertical holes and an open holey top - that are only good for one thing - holding butter which makes them marginally more palatable... You can tell I'm not a fan...
english muffins are a bread product with a more breaddy dough but cooked on a dry pan.
(muffins are an american thing - basically cup cakes but bigger)
Back to crumpets: The yeast is there to make the base mix more fluffy when its cooked. the baking power or bicarb is there to give it that quick final rise and helps to make the holes. Bicarb on its own needs a bit of acid to set it off - some milk in the mix but an hours ferment will probably start to produce enough. baking powders are a mix of both. I'd stick to baking powder.
Good luck, but maybe don't worry if you can't get it right - savour the experience for the next time you're in the UK...
-Gordon
I grew up eating cold pancakes every so often, I don't mind it at all.
And that's what cold untoasted crumpets taste like so I didn't really mind, especially not when hungry.
Toasted and smeared with butter I think they are very different, very comforting. Especially the little crispy edges.
I prefer them toasted.
I didn't talk about english muffins though, so I'm wondering why you brought it up.
I've never had english muffins, do you like them? As I understand it they have no holes on top for soaking in butter so you need to split them if you want to get butter into the insides.
Do you think milk is an acidic component to which the bicarb can react?
How would you go about adding the baking powder (how and when and with water or not)?
I will probably keep trying until I've exhausted my options, if I don't get it to suit my taste by then I'll accept defeat.
I hope to go to the UK about 3 years from now (need to save money, I have to move house as well) which is a long wait for something other people can make at home.
Thank you for the input,
do you still live in the UK?
I Minioven mentioned something about crumpets & muffins, so ...
I just don't see the attraction of muffins - maybe it's rubbish shop-bought ones that have put me off. I did make some once and they came out like the shop ones - dull and rubbery, so never bothered again. I used baking powder IIRC. I use bicarb in soda bread with milk at a push (when I don't have buttermilk or yoghurt handy) and my scones use bicarb and milk and get a good enough rise. I'd need to go & lookup the recipe - I suspect it was one out of an old Good Housekeeping book I have (c1970)
I like english muffins. Very filling - especially when topped with egg, ham and hollandaise sauce.
And yes, I live in the UK - Devon.
-Gordon
You don't put sweet toppings on english muffins?
But egg, ham and hollandaise sauce does sound very good indeed.
Bicarb isn't a very well known or popular leavener in the netherlands, we just use yeast or baking powder usually.
Bicarb is only available at import shops, so is cream of tartar.
I had some marvelous scones in amsterdam 6 years ago, they even tasted great on their own (without any topping).
I had a bit of trouble replicating them but eventually made it work with baking powder and tweaking the amount of liquid.
Most scone recipes I found just felt dry and lacked flavour.
I don't know if I am supposed to use bicarb and using bp instead is an insult to british tradition.
I haven't seen Devon yet, closest we came was Bath and Salisbury.
I'll dig out the recipe I used for crumpets and post it later, but I probably will never make them again as I'm really not a fan.
Only had savoury on muffins.
I use bicarb in my scones, but they're really just a carrier for clotted cream and jam, so for the most part not worth making a fuss over. However after some criticism of my scones (they weren't tall enough, but I didn't care as they're just to hold clotted cream and jam), I decided to re-invent my recipe and make them a bit taller. I spent a day making and baking scones, trying different recipes until I worked something I was happy with... then I decided I didn't really want to supply scones to the place who wanted them! I make them for cream teas for small local events and I provide them ready split and filled...
Devon is where the cream tea was invented. Half a scone, then cream then jam on-top. In that order. People from other counties in the UK will tell you otherwise, but it's documented and scientifically proven.
Surprised you can't get bicarb. easy - Dr. Oteker makes it - it's easy to get in shops in the UK and americans use it by the kilo for purposes other than baking - e.g. cleaning, odour removal, etc. Try amazon...
-Gordon
I agree with the order of first putting on the cream and then putting the jam on top.
The clotted cream is thicker and doesn't drop of the spoon/knife easily so it's more logical to put that first, the jam can just droop from the spoon on top of the cream so it makes sense to put that on last. At least to me it makes sense that way.
I'm excited to see your crumpet recipe.
I've seen the debate on the cream/jam order on the internet.
I bought my bicarb from a local asian food market (they have all kinds of interesting baking supplies we don't usually get in regular supermarkets).
It is weird that it isn't easily available, England and the netherlands are neighbours. Granted the english neighbour has a free standing house, but still.
We also can't get clotted cream (has to be imported and ordered on the internet) and double cream.
When it comes to dairy for the dutch, if it's not cheese it should be as low fat as possible. That seems to be the general consensus.
-gr Yvonne
Warm from the oven with just a dab of butter and maybe some home made jam - damson works really well. Not a big fan of clotted cream.
I use the scone recipe from the Two Fat Ladies.
You can substitute whipping cream (slagroom) for double cream btw - it has a slightly lower fat content, but tbh, they're pretty interchangeable and you'd be hard pressed to really notice the difference.
But then again I am a huge glutton. It's a real problem, I easily get tired of eating the same meal rotation and have to search for new stuff often. If I don't meals start feeling like just some chore I have to do and I become dissatisfied, which results in me snacking more and eating more stuff that I only should have in small quantities.
My boyfriend has gotten his hands on some clotted cream here in the netherlands, he ordered it via the internet from some import shop.
At least, as far as clotted cream goes, we're set for afternoon tea on the 2nd of october.
Damson jam is not available in dutch supermarkets, strange that even though we're neighbors we get all these differences in eating culture. There's much less difference between us and our other neighbors (like belgium and germany) food wise, but then again you're on an island.
Plum preserve in general is rare to find ready made. My mother makes some when she gets the opportunity, it's easily our favorite preserve.
But thank you for the whipping cream advice, I'd always dismissed british recipes with double cream in them thinking they would fail with whipping cream. Now I feel the courage to try it, if it doesn't work out it will probably still taste nice.
And preserves, I make my own with fruit from the garden :-)
Damsons (a kind of cooking plum) are not easy to find here in the UK either. They're simply not as popular as they used to be - namely because people don't really cook much anymore, let alone make jam. I have a damson tree (alongside other varieties of plums) but this year's crop has been appalling...
Whipping cream is about 10% lower in fat - I use it instead of double cream for that very reason, else I'll be the size of a small house LOL... Another alternative to double cream if you don't mind the slightly sour flavour is creme fraiche, which has pretty well much the same fat content.
My mom is a preserving fiend, she does jams, compotes and apple puree. At the moment she's contemplating what to do with all the apples and pears she's been given by family. I hope it's not all going to be stewed pears and apple puree. I don't have bread often so it wouldn't make a lot of sense if I made the jam. I did make fermented vegetables often (sauerkraut, kimchi, radish) but haven't done it recently.
There are damson trees in the netherlands, mostly in people's backyards and non-commercial orchards. Super rare though. My mom has a pear tree in her front yard which sometimes bears tasty fruit. Not that she needs extra pears at the moment. I have an apartment with a little roof terrace which used to have a small garden that grew cucumbers but those days are gone. Looking for a new place to life anyway.
Do you use cream often in cooking? Is that what english people usually do?
If creme fraiche works instead of double cream in some recipes that's a great help since creme fraiche is widely available here.
Lovely fruit & veg, it's a shame to waste them. Mum and I have won prizes with our preserves at the local show...
Has your mum thought about making chutney with the apples & pears instead? It's great to stick in cheese sandwiches, dollop on sausages, burgers and on cold cuts.
I don't do fermented veg - simply don't eat enough of it to make it worthwhile. Pickles yes - mainly cucumbers, courgettes and pears.
I'm not your typical English girl I'm afraid LOL, so you can't judge what I do against what everyone else does... I was born in London, but my mum is Belgian (from Ghent) and my dad was half German. Cooking here chez Casa Witty is pretty cosmopolitan. I don't use cream that much in cooking tbh, mostly in quiches, when I make mushroom stroganoff and sometimes in pasta sauces.
But I like it anyway. My mom is kind of wary of "foreign food" (doesn't know what she is missing) so chutney will be a hard sell. maybe if she's desperate enough (and up to her ears in apples and pears) she'll be in for it.
Regarding the fermented veg, I have the same problem as you. I'm the only one who eats it, I live alone, the minimum amount I have to make is starting with one cabbage which will take me more than 3 months to eat up and by that time it's over its flavour peak. And it takes one day of sitting at home, salting, turning and rinsing the cabbage and making the paste.
And people think I stink after eating kimchi no matter if I have brushed or not, dutchies are in general not fond of or used to more than a quarter clove of garlic in their meals, "garlic is for frenchmen" they say. And kimchi without garlic is just not kimchi. Even white kimchi has garlic.
I live close to the border with belgium, not so far from ghent although I've never been there. It seems I visit country after country with my cooking, first it was chinese, a bit of italian, then korean, then indian, then thai and currently japanese. I picked up an old cookbook when I visited south england, it's called "good things in england by florence white (aka mary evelyn)". First published in 1932 it has a lot of old english recipes that state neither the baking temperature nor the baking time. "cook until done" kind of practises :)
Cookbooks like that... One of my favourites is a Bavarian cookbook that's contemporary with "Good Things in England" which I use for cakes mainly. The margins are full of notes in pencil regarding oven temps and times.
I adore garlic too - the more the better... :-)
I was able to write this recipe thanks to your advice as well http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43814/final-crumpet-recipe
This is the saved discard when feeding a sourdough culture. It is very acidic, the flour is really digested and only a little baking soda is needed to react with the acidic dough to achieve lift. A little salt and sugar are added for taste and that is all. Never add additional flour unless you want a more pancake taste and consistency.
I think you could achieve something similar using MiniOven's ideas. Try an experimental recipe. 1 cup flour, 1 cup water, a pinch of yeast. Mix and let sit on the counter for 24 hours or more. Let the yeast really devour it. Remember the yeast is not being used to raise the crumpets in this recipe. It is being used to pre-digest the floour to create a crumpets unique texture and produce the acid to react with the baking soda.Then add a little sugar and salt (to taste), about 1/2 tsp baking soda (it should really rise if it became acidic enough) and then bake them on a hot frying pan. I don't have rings so mine are quite flat.
Have some delicious fun!
Would that experimental recipe be considered a sourdough after 24 hours?
I've only ever baked non-sourdough bread so I don't know anything about it.
I did once use a no knead bread concept I read in "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day" where I made a dough and left it in the fridge for a long time, and every time I used some of it (as the week went by) the breads I made became more flavourful. Didn't really taste sour though, must be the temperature.
You could try pikelets instead...They're smaller and made without the rings, but essentially the same thing. Here's a recipe from "The Best of Sainsbury's Baking"...
20g fresh yeast
450ml warm water
350g plain flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon bicarbonate of soda with 2 tablespoons cold water
1 egg white, lightly whisked
Mix the yeast with the warm water in a large mixing bowl. Sift the flour and the salt into the bowl and blend until smooth. Cover and leave in a warm place for 30 mins or until the mixture rises and starts to drop. Mix in the blended soda, then fold in the egg white thoroughly, until smooth and the consistency of thick pouring cream.
Lightly grease a heavy-based pan and heat until a drop of batter sizzles immediately on contact. Drop tablespoons of the batter onto the pan and cook until the top is dry. Turn with a palette knife and cook the underside until lightly browned. Makes about 25. Serve immediately, or cool then toast lightly. Serve with butter.
HTH :-)
I suppose the egg white is there to prevent the batter from spreading too much. Just a guess though.
Any idea on what to do with a lone egg yolk? I hate to waste food. Do you think adding the entire egg would be a problem?
I've been able to get the shape of the crumpets right and I've been able to cook them through without the bottom browning too much. It's just the flavour and inner structure that still needs some tinkering.
I don't think the pikelet recipe is going to help much with those issues but I do think it's cool that you took the time to provide it. It might just be something nice to make during the holidays, they seem a lot easier than crumpets.
Hopefully they don't get stuck in my toaster, that's exactly what happened when I was feeling experimental and halved a crumpet and toasted it.
Are great for dropping into mashed potatoes or to enrich something like a cheese sauce :-) Or you could always make mayonnaise...
It's a while since I made pikelets, but I'd imagine that the egg white gives a lighter, less stodgy end product and, as the albumen coagulates very quickly when subjected to heat, would help maintaining the holes. You could try adding an egg white to whatever crumpet recipe you use and see what difference it makes.
You could always use the grill instead of the toaster - you'll have to flip them halfway, but it's better than trying to retrieve something from inside the toaster ;-)
Good ideas for the yolk :) thanks.
I will try adding egg white to crumpets, maybe it makes a noticeable difference.
My toaster is a little old cheapie thing I bought 8 years ago, it has two slots, a lever that you push down to start the heating process, a heat setting dial and if you press a little button two wires pop up to form a makeshift rack where you can put split buns on (like kaiserbrotchen). I got a few split crumpets stuck in the toaster, panicked, pulled out the cord and went to work with some cooking tongs.
Now if I want some toasted split crumpets I just put them on the rack and hope that after the lever popping up (after cooking time has elapsed) the crumpet halves won't be found in the sink. It really is a rackety old toaster and it's not uncommon for it to launch toast all over the kitchen. My only defense is to cover the surrounding area with plates and watch the toaster like a cat watching its prey. It doesn't help that the only kitchen power outlet is smack dab next to the sink.
I would probably buy a better toaster if I ate bread more often.
Maybe it's time to learn how to use my ovens grill, it's built in and I bought it from the former tenant. The oven has seen plenty of use, the grill I've never used.
If you haven't or rarely use the oven grill, check the oven instructions first. Most ovens have a metal plate that slides into the top of the oven somehow to jar the door. Protects the instrument panel and directs heat and smoke away from cupboards and countertops. Just a caution. (Had an extensive clean up after someone whose name I will not mention.)
Also there might be a bit of smoke when the grill first heats up. Open the window and be ready to cover the smoke alarm with a wet towel. :)
A hot fry pan will also toast bread and so will a hot iron. (Who irons these days, right?)
The Americans dealt with cooking crumpets years ago by slathering their butter on waffles. Basically the same thing but the "iron" had changed, only the frozen ones need a toaster. :)
I have the oven manual somewhere in the house, before I attempt anything with the grill I will read the necessary parts.
I will open the window and stand ready with a damp towel.
I lived together with a person who claimed to know how to cook, even worked at a specialty cook/pan/utensil store and yet he managed to melt a plastic colander that he left on the electric cooker. And I need more than 1 hand to count how often he's made the smoke alarm go off. Overall he did not know how to cook beyond stuff that was already half made.
Maybe it's just me but I've met 3 men who claimed to know how to cook well and just turned out to be pretty darn bad at it. Maybe that's not a male thing, maybe that's a people thing. The current bf (of 6 years) is an absolute kitchen princess and when you ask him if he can cook well he says "I'm so so".
Using an iron to toast? People actually do that? I thought that was a joke.
It's been decades since I had a waffle, my mother used to make waffles in a waffle iron when we were little. She'd let them cool down just a bit and then put ripe cherries and whipped cream on top.
They sell waffles in the supermarkets but waffles are the kind of foods that I can't imagine taste good if they're not homemade.
Are a regular feature here :-D I make my own. Love them with dark chocolate sauce and whipped cream, but eating them that way is a rare treat. Mostly I make the ones that you can eat cold.
Waffles basically the same thing as crumpets? Not even close!
You don't split crumpets... You toast them whole ;-)
Yeah I know, but I like the crispy edges.
I would point you towards a post by Ananda. He is a professional baker in the UK and used to be a lecturer. This post details how to make both crumpets and muffins. Pay no attention to Drogon :) , crumpets toasted, served warm with plenty of salted butter on top (the holey side) are delish whilst muffins are the best (and traditional) base for eggs benedict/royale etc etc.
If this is the post you're referring to http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15953/crumpets-and-muffins then I've read it. But thanks anyway, it would have been a large contribution if it was new to me.
I ran into two things that could be problematic regarding the flavour and rise of these crumpets;
-there is no acidic ingredient to react with and neutralise any metallic soapy flavour in the bicarb because it's just flour, salt, yeast and water.
-the recipe asks for 1.5 grams of bicarb. My digital kitchen scale is only accurate down to the gram and only starts measuring at 5 grams. I googled "how many grams of baking soda in a teaspoon" in an attempt to figure out how many ml (a teaspoon being 5 ml) 1.5 grams of bicarb would make. The results/answers are all over the place. And they were from expert sites too. I'll give you an idea of the answers;
-0.69ml, 0.94ml, 1.07ml, 1.50ml, 1.56ml, 1.60ml, 1.63ml, 3.21ml (last one must have been a typo on that baking site)
We're talking more than double the baking soda strength here.
Which makes me wonder all the more how ananda (and everyone else on that page who's done the recipe) measures 1.5 grams of bicarb. Maybe they all have digital precision pocket scales that are also used for herbs, medications, coffee etc.
I kind of skimmed a lot of the replies above, so I'm not sure if someone dealt with the acidic thing yet.
But if I knew there was no acidic ingredient and baking soda required anyway, I'd say the recipe is bad! I would find a different recipe (unreacted baking soda, yech). If every recipe seemed to say this, as seems in your case, I'd either add an acid (vinegar is handy in my kitchen), skip the baking soda, or use baking powder instead. My rule of thumb is 1 tsp baking soda to 2-3 T vinegar for an average cake, but you may need less as you have yeast.
I've found recipes for all sorts of things that call for just baking soda and no clear acidic ingredient. Maybe people are used to the flavour, or it's hidden by the sugar/salt/other flavour, or they think their can of baking powder is more professionally known as baking soda?
Unfortunately I haven't ventured into crumpet-making personally, though we used to have them for treats as children (New Zealander here). Hope you figure it out, because those things are yummy!
I see you asked earlier about ratio of vinegar to flour. I'd say most of my things that use that 1t baking soda : 2.5T vinegar ratio are made with about 200-250g flour (cakes, pancakes, scones). The things rise, so that's good enough for me. I'm not a professional though.
than just to react to acids and make gas. It reduces the browning temperature.
True, and I do actually care about this in bread. And roux. But not crumpets. Nor cakes, muffins, scones, biscuits, pancakes. Except where the browning means I burnt them. For those, the flavour either comes from the ingredients or what I slather on top of them afterwards - not the flavour of the actual thing.
Activates on contact with liquids - they don't have to specifically be acidic. Case in point are things like sponge cakes, tea breads and the like.
If you add vinegar to baking powder, it goes *whoosh* (anyone ever put baking powder and vinegar in the capsules from kinder eggs?) but if you simply add water, it will bubble, but a lot more slowly.
Quite so. The cream of tartar is an acid, which is why it's used in baking powder.
I've probably used more bicarb to combat indigestion than in baking over the years. It mixes with water without producing more than a slight fizz but starts producing large amounts of gas when it hits stomach acid. These days I use omeprazole instead, and can now eat curries with impunity and without acid reflux, but years of using bicarb means that I actually quite like the flavour. Odd, I know, but it's surprising what you can get used to.
Mind, I use bicarb for deodorizing cat litter trays... :-p
Cream of tartar is useful when whipping egg whites as well - just a wee pinch in there gives you a better result.
Bicarb was a major part of my mother's household toolkit. Deodorising anything, removing stains and preventing vegetables from losing colour while cooking were its main tasks. That's where I learned of its acid neutralising properties, of course. She was born in Ireland, where it's used for making soda bread, of course.
I don't do a lot of egg white whipping but, since I started making fruit curds, my wife's been pestering me to make a lemon meringue pie for her, so I'll tuck that useful piece of information away for when I finally comply. I should revisit nougat, too. Thanks.
Just finished watching the qualifying, then?
The tennis. Now catching up on the qualifying :-)
I found the tip for the eggs in a really old cookbook in a recipe for cheese souffle (which incidentally is very tasty) and now do it whenever I need whisked egg whites.
Orange curd is really good on buttered toast :-D
So far I've only found one curd that isn't really good on buttered toast or buttered bread or even just on a spoon and that's banoffee. Way too sweet, even with the extremely late addition of some crab apple purée (It wasn't thickening too well and I hoped the pectin would help. It did.). Raspberry and blackberry are my current (not currant) obsessions but I have my eye on some passion fruit pulp in the wholesale warehouse I frequent and I suspect that might prove to be extremely tasty. I have a bit of a curd backlog at the moment, though. Must invite some good eaters to tea.
II find Banoffee far too sweet as well. It's not a flavour I'd choose for a curd (or for a cake). The best curds are the ones that have a good zing to them.
Curd is good to make ice cream too, either folded into a good vanilla to make a ripple, or as a flavour in itself. :-)
Passion fruit sounds good. Maybe team it with some mango?
Curd ice cream is superb. I've made it quite a few times. Apart from the great flavour and texture I like the way it stays much softer than standard ice cream in the freezer. Apart from cutting down on the ripening time it makes it easier to sneak a few quick spoonfuls.
Funny you should mention mango. The wholesale warehouse with the passion fruit pulp also has big cans of mango pulp.
For stomach acid I mean? How do you take it?
Yes it works. Bicarb is the basis of many commercial antacids.
You stir about quarter of a spoonful into 100-200ml or so of warm-to-hot water and drink it down. One hearty belch later you feel much better.
I will try it when I have a little lava pit starting but not enough to reach for the omeprazole.
Yes, they all activate, but baking soda by itself is not enough to make a whole cake fluffy, and definitely a suspect in my book if combined with lack of acid and the problem is not enough rise. There's no accounting for taste, but I like my cakes to be airy...
creaming the butter and sugar until pale and fluffy comes in ;-) Do it properly and you'll have a lovely light sponge. The other trick is to fold in the flour very gently, otherwise you'll lose all the air that you spent so much elbow grease incorporating into the mix ;-)
I seem to spend most of my time with egg-white-raised-oil-based cakes - chiffon cakes I think they're called, so no butter, and the sugar is mostly whipped with the eggs. I'm sure I have made a butter cake here and there but I can't remember the last time I did it. I kinda feel like it's a waste of butter, when I could be eating the butter directly :P For biscuits I do cream my butter and sugar well, in fact I'll draw my toddlers' attention to the fact that it becomes paler and paler. Scones don't use a significant amount of sugar, so creaming never comes up.
I came up with my 1 tsp baking soda : 2-3 T vinegar precisely because everything I made with less vinegar in the same ratio (eg 1 tsp baking soda : 1 T vinegar) actually WAS too dense even though creaming was either fine or not involved. I was at the point where I would make orange muffins with the lower vinegar amount + orange juice and it would come out with no sourness because the juice had been used up in the baking soda reaction. I suppose at least they didn't taste like baking soda. Again, a taste issue - maybe people don't like their orange muffins to taste like oranges? I do!
Natural yoghurt instead of vinegar?
Yoghurt is great in muffins :-D
Yep, we love it. Unfortunately, if it's a good batch (it isn't always) we're through it in no time. Kind of like butter... why bake it when you could just eat it straight :P
the vile taste of baking soda without acid. Turns out my suspicion was right, those recipes are bad and people don't seem to complain about it. I haven't found one traditional crumpet recipe that incorporates an acid next to the bs. A few recipes with baking powder but they are the small minority.
I've also not made a crumpet recipe that I thought had enough air in the inner texture.
Sainsbury's crumpets have both baking powder and vinegar, what ratio would to recommend and how much of those compared to the flour?
Thanks for your input.
I made this final crumpet recipe http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43814/final-crumpet-recipe
Spoon scale for the tiny stuff 0.1g. Picked it up at a electronic shop. Great little toy.
If your scales starts to measure at 5g, you need a 5g weight to put onto the scale to start it off. Two euro coins, 1 cent + 2 cent weighs 5.4g Two 1 cent coins weigh 4.6g. A 50 cent + 1 cent = 10g <--- easiest to do the math so have these handy when you need whole grams under 5.
My 1/4 teaspoon full of baking soda (bicarb) dipped & levelled with a straight edge weighs 1.2g
1/2 tsp bicarb weighs 2.6g (Run thru a small sieve after measuring to break lumps.)
Picked up a tip on the extra egg yolk. Add it to two whole eggs when scrambling eggs for extra richness.
Cooking over gas has it's problems... Have you considered a diffuser between the griddle and the flame? About the only way to get low heat without burning. It is also possible to heat the griddle with rings in the oven, fill the rings and return to the oven, flip when done.
P.S. I don't know how many batches of crumpets I would make before I started adding a dash of vanilla or something stronger and/or a grate or two of orange peel or nutmeg. Depends on the season and how special I want it to be. :)
Other trick:
Measure out 10 measures on the scale so that you are in its accurate range. Divide by 10 to get the value of 1.
Thank you for the advice, I will be visiting my mother tomorrow so I can ask her if she has an old fashioned scale lying around. It's amazing the stuff she has in her attic.
I've actually only used a pan over a flame right now, no griddles yet. Tomorrow I will try my moms hotplate which is what a lot of people advocate because of temperature control and smooth flat surface.
I would first have to find a crumpet recipe that I consider to be decent enough before I opt for any add ons.
Have you tried making a sourdough version? Something along these lines:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/29310/sourdough-crumpets
Maybe it was mentioned somewhere above, long thread. Disclaimer - I have no idea what a crumpet tastes like.
I have made these English muffins last weekend with a sponge and they were really good. I am guessing crumpets are a little more liquidish version.
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/sourdough-english-muffins/
Cheers
-L
Thank you for your recommendation.
These do look good.
On the taste of crumpets; depends on whether you buy them prepackaged from a supermarket or try them for the first time using a recipe. I tried the supermarket version first, tried the recipes on the net second and wasn't all that fond of the internet recipes. The supermarket versions taste like a hybrid between bread and a yeasted pancake, leaning towards the pancake when it comes to flavour. Texture is also important, IMO you can't just have a random crumb with holes here and there. What I like about crumpets is that they have holes on top which reach down to 2 or 3 mm from the bottom and if you spread butter on a freshly toasted crumpet the butter melts into the holes and ends up in your crumpet.
Let us know when you achieve what you are after and how. Hey, it is a journey and having fun on the way to get to destination.
I am on a similar mission to make Turkish street simit here in California.
Cheers
-L
Afterall, everyone's been mighty helpful. Now that the creations are actually edible (to me), except for that last bicarb one, it's not much of a hardship.
I think you have a bigger challenge than I do because simits vary greatly by region (ingredient wise and texture wise).
Good luck.
with all of your advice http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43814/final-crumpet-recipe
so I thought I'd tell you here.