Kitchen Aid KSM7586PSR Or Ankarsrum/Electrolux Mixer
Hi everyone,
I am a new baker (only started in September). I make cookies, cakes, bread, muffins, and pizza. I haven't made anything too fancy yet, but I would like to venture deeper into bread making. Right now I make the easiest pizza dough ever with 1 rise and I have made two loaves of white bread. I also bake 16 1/2 - 17 1/2 cups (6-7lbs?) of Challah bread once a week. I currently don't own any equipment. I use my hands or a whisk or a fork for everything. Most of the time it works out, but sometimes I think a mixer would make life easier. On that note, I was thinking to use my American Express points for either the KitchenAid Pro 7-qt or spending a bit more and getting the Anksarum. I need something versatile as I make everything. What would you recommend? Can I even fit that much dough in either one? Thank you in advance.
Lori :)
In terms of capacity, I just did a batch of pizza dough in my Ankarsrum that used 2.5kg of flour, about 5.5 pounds. I think I was pushing the limit and it tried to crawl out of the bowl a few times, but I was able to pull it off.
Googling a bit, I'm finding most people say there are about 20 cups of flour in a 5 pound bag, so I'm guessing your recipe has closer to 4 pounds of flour in it. I would think either mixer would be able to handle it.
I love my Ankarsrum and recommend them highly to anyone (see here) with that kind of budget. I've never used the KitchenAid Pro though, so couldn't tell you how they compare.
Lori, do a search here on the Magic Mill Assistent / Electrolux / Ankarsrum ( all the same machine, just different names, I will call it the Assistent, because that is in the name for most of the models ) and you will see lots of reviews, most are very positive. I have one and love it. My guess it that the Assistent has the highest capacity for whole wheat flour of any of the home mixers. I just checked the online manual for the KA, and they say its limit is 16 cups white flour, 10 cups whole wheat flour for the 7 quart mixer. If you do a search on KA, there are tons of posts, some on the Artisan line, and some on the Proline. Some posts have pretty negative reviews of KA mixers burning up, some are referring to the Artisan which is not as heavy duty as the proline, and other posters have suggested that in some cases, users may have exceeded the manufacturers recommendations either on using too much whole wheat flour, or mixing too long. The manuals for some KA models state you have to stop the machine and let it cool down after it has kneaded for a certain period of time. I don't see that warning in the manual for that model, but it says do not knead at any speed other than speed 2, and there is an automatic shutoff of the machine if you try to use any other speed. I have an older KA lift bowl ( similar to the pro line ) and it is a good general purpose mixer, but the Assistent is much better at kneading bread dough, including wheat flour. One benefit of the KA is that you have one bowl to whip eggs, cream butter, or knead dough. The Assistent has a different bowl that you have to keep store and keep track of if you want to use if for whipping eggs or creaming butter, or so I have read. I only use the Assistent for dough, so I don't have the problem. The Assistent has a little bit of a learning curve, but after you use it a few times, you get the hang of it. It is clearly heavy duty and should last a few lifetimes.
I have had no issues with creaming butter or whipping cream, but have not tried making a meringue with the SS bowl and roller/scraper. Until I got the new heavy cookie whisks, I didn't even try using the whisks to cream butter for cookies. For batters, I do prefer the plastic bowl and whisks simply because it is lighter and has a handle and pour spout of sorts. For custards, e.g. cheese cake, etc., I prefer the roller as you can avoid over-mixing air into the batter.
For bread, I think it has no peer among home machines at any price.
For what it's worth,
gary
Hi Gary,
You mentioned you were using the roller for a cheesecake. I am baking a rose levy Beranbaum cheesecake later today. Any tips on using the ankarsrum mixer with this recipe?
Wanda
I imagine Rose's methods work the same as mine, but I haven't seen her recipe. Space the roller just enough that the batter doesn't pile up. As it creams and becomes thinner you can let it run closer or even on the rim.
My mixing methods:
1. Cream the cheese, sugar and salt (if used, I sometimes use other cheeses that may already be salty). Use a slow speed to avoid integrating air into the mix.
2. Beat the eggs and add in 4 or 5 parts.
3. Add flavoring ingredients.
In other words, run slow. Add ingredients in order specified by the recipe. I have seldom found any reason to deviate from recipes written for KA type mixers; it only looks different.
Have fun. Cheese cakes are cool.
g
I would pass on the KitchenAid if these other mixers are within your budget.
Jeff
Have you considered the Bosch Universal? Much lower price point and seems like it would meet all your requirements - can handle up to 15 pounds of dough and does everything else you'd need in a stand mixer. Loved mine so much that I became a home demonstrator of them and am an authorized dealer. Good luck!
I have both the bosch universal and a dlx and i use both. I bought the dlx for baking bread but never had any luck with bread dough seams to just wrap around the the kneading tube and spins and also climbs up the tube. That said i love the machine for all other baking easy to clean and does a great job. I bought the bosch for the bread and after a few weeks seams to be working pretty good for small and large batches. I did buy the Small Batch Dough Divider for the bosch and it helped with small batches.With the dlx when making dough i used the tube and scraper no dough hook.
Thank you everyone for your responses. I did a search and it seems that the vintage KA's were great. The more recent ones not so much. But now, the company started using all metal gears again? As for size, this doesn't look like it will be a problem. And everyone seems to love the DLX. The Bosch has mixed opinions as well, but mostly good.
So I guess I am still confused. I am not sure if Amex has the Bosch available. The price is great for one. I am not to thrilled to have a lot of different parts for everything. I don't have space. I have a small kitchen, so maybe the DLX?
This is going to sound funny, but I was afraid to be different and get a DLX since it's not so common here or at least I don't know anyone that has one. Most people seem to get KA's and a few venture and get Bosch. How is customer service on the DLX?
A KA Pro 7qt is listed at $550. The DLX is $700. Is it worth the $150 difference? If the KA is really going to burn out and can't handle making bread, then really it's not for me. But can the DLX make cakes, cookies, muffins, etc.? Also, how are the attachments for it? I would probably be interested in a pasta attachment (if there is one) as I make that too.
Ok, sorry to be repetitive. Time to get back to regular life (kids, cooking, cleaning, etc.) Thank you again for all your help. :)
I've had mine for several years now, and am completely happy with it, and have complete confidence in the dealer I used.
cheers,
gary
I had a KA Pro 600 and sold it after six months. It labored under even the most modest bread loads. Having said this, the KA is better for almost all other non-bread mixes and it cleans up so easily compared to the others. My wife wants a KA back to do cookies, whipping and such. So, you have to be careful on this site. We all focus on bread, lots of it and heavy batches. If you have limited counter space (and most of us do) then you have to think about the relative value of a primarily bread mixer taking up space. I currently have a Bosch but ironically I now mix all but highly enriched doughs by hand. So ... no easy answer.
Paul
I haven't used the new proline, so I can't say if the DLX is worth $150 more. I will say it is worth at least $150 more than the old KA I have which is about 10 or 15 years old. The DLX is basically a large open tub, you dump in things, you turn it on, and dump in more stuff as needed. With the KA, you have to lower the bowl to add ingredients, and even then, you get flour all over when you turn it on. BTW, I have several Bosch mixers, and they are very good machines, though some may be turned off by the plastic construction and plastic bowls - however they are well engineered and run like a tank. As Paul points out, you do need to be careful since the focus here is mostly on bread. You can go to the Gardenweb forums and do a search there and get a slightly different perspective http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/ , though you will still see plenty of negative reviews of some of the KA mixers - usually complaints about it burning up or breaking, though not sure whether the new model will have a similar experience.
I just returned the KSM7586P, For a $600 mixer it's not worth the price. I have never used the Ankarsrum but I do have a Bosch Compact which was $189 and at that price it did a better job at dough. It had a better motor and sounded like it didn't struggle. The Bosch has such a powerful motor, you could rake a ball of kneaded dough, throw it in and the the strain on the motor wouldn't be all that audible. The KA on the other hand it crys.
I also got my KA with a dough hook that didn't fit and a beater that had chipped off nylon. The packaging was also really horrible. Hundreds of pieces of Styrofoam that I had to clean up. They clinged to everything in the area. I know many companies use stryfoam but it's 2013 there are better alternatives that are easier to manage and better for the environment.
My fixer upon first use also had metal shards all over the base. I assume that's due to metal on metal contact. While to most that's not a big deal. I'd be worried if one of those somehow got into my food. A quick google search will also show you complaints of people getting metal shards in their food due to the gears wearing down and grinding.
The KA just had so many considerations. When I got my Bosch Compact I just started using it. I didn't have to worry about metal shards or if I could plug it into an extension cord.
You will have to decide for yourself. Overall I wasn't happy. I'm just happy the store took it back. Every mixer though has its issues. $600 is a lot to spend though on an appliance that presented the quality KA was offering.
After reading everyone's review, it seems I will be ordering a DLX. I'm nervous, but excited as I will be spending all my points and some money to cover the difference to purchase one, but all of your advice has assured me it is the best decision and will hopefully serve me for years to come.
I was going to say I don't know why I was so hyped up about getting a KA, but I do know why; good marketing and that my mother-in-law has one and couldn't live without it. She doesn't do anything by hand since she bought one. She probably purchased hers back in the late 1980's or early 1990's (don't know if that makes it a better machine).
I checked out the gardenweb forum and the people over there don't seem too happy either. The people that are happy are reviewers from Amazon and those receiving it free who have blogs. Strange that only reviewers on Amazon seem content. Maybe they are fake? I don't know, but it's not my prerogative.
I want to say thank you to everyone again! Seriously. It is nice to know that there are people out there still willing to answer questions, offer free advice, and help those in need.
P.S. I definitely have some bread baking questions and will be posting shortly in the appropriate forum. I think I overwork my bread dough or don't let it rise enough. It tastes fine, but the inside doesn't look as light and fluffy as it should. But that's a different topic for discussion. :)
It's unlikely that most of the reviews are fake. Some are though I am sure.
The KA mixer is a status product. It's pretty much that simple.
I too didn't think all the negative reviews here and other places could be true. There were many people who claimed they were very happy with them on sites like Amazon. People even claimed to love them. How could I ever have lived without one they said.
Then I actually got one and reality hit. The majority of reviewers were wrong. The minority right. I guess all the people who have them likely don't use them much. Or use them and don't actually know that they aren't functioning like a stand mixer should. It would be perfectly plausible for somebody to get a $200 KA and assume there could be nothing better. Until you hear a mixer with a powerful motor handle a load you don't know what one sounds like that has a poor motor.
I think you will be very happy with your new Assistent. It may be puzzling at first because of the completely different method of mixing and kneading, but use the suggestions in the user's manual. It seems poorly written at first, but the more you use the mixer, the more the instructions will make sense. That's been my experience at least.
Regarding KA reviews, keep in mind that it is likely a superior mixer for the purpose that people generally put it. We bread bakers are a small portion of the market. For us, the KA has often proven itself to be unfit for purpose. When I watch cooking shows and see the KAs in action, my thought is that my $19.95 hand-held mixer could do most (excepting larger volumes) of what they show: cakes, cookies, mashed potatoes, whipping cream or egg whites, &c.. It is bread dough that separates the men from the boys. That's where the Assistent and Bosch can really strut their stuff.
cheers,
gary
Since I have used and own both KA and Ankarsrum, I can address your question. I will use DLX for the Ankarsrum/Assistent/Magic mill. It has had so many names. BAD for marketing!
First, I just bought the KA 8 qt COMMERCIAL mixer and sold my 6 qt. KA. Big mistake. I should have researched better. They BOTH only hold 14 cups of flour !!! Unbelievable! I just assumed 8 qt would hold more than 6 qt for a few hundred more. Not so. AND I can't get anyone to take it back! I'm REALLY upset by that. So be careful. And if you want the 8 qt, get the 7 qt which is the same machine and is cheaper, and then buy an extra 8 qt bowl which fits. You will have two bowls and still spend less. I've confirmed this with KA.
Next, on youtube you can see the American Test Kitchen testing all mixers. They finally came down to the 7 qt Kitchenaid as being the best, with the 4-1/2 qt being next. So KA beat them all out, surprising people who say they are junk. Other motors burned out, etc. KA did not. BTW, KA is all metal now.
I use the DLX for bread and it's great for that. Also for cookies. I have an AWFUL time creaming butter and sugar for the beginning of cookies. I've never tried using the whip, just the roller and scraper and it takes forever. The KA beats it hands down for creaming. Also KA is much better for cakes. I don't have the new cake whip for the DLX but I can't imagine that it mixes any better than the old whip, which did a lousy job. I just cannot makes cakes with the DLX and cannot find anything on youtube or anywhere showing it making a good cake batter. They just gloss over that so one can assume that it does not do a good job mixing cakes. If you make cakes a lot it's not for you.
So basically, the DLX is for bread, period. It's also good for heavy cookie dough once you get the butter and sugar creamed elsewhere (maybe hand mixer in DLX bowl??). The KA does it all, but does NOT have nearly the capacity of the Akarsrum DLX, which is I believe is 23 cups as apposed to KA's largest mixer holding 14 cups. No comparison there.
My conclusion is two mixers are needed, or at least the DLX and a hand mixer. Disappointing at the $700 price point that one cannot get one mixer that does it all.
I guess I don't see how it could be considered the best. My own sounded like it was struggling with 600g of flour and all sorts of metal fragments came off it at the first bout. I ran from it. I'm just happy I was able to get my money back.
I will not comment on any model of the KA; I haven't personally used a KA.
Your results with the DLX contradict mine. I easily cream butter, cheese or eggs with either the whisks or the roller. Likewise I have made cookies, both stiff dough and batter-like doughs with no problems using either the roller or cookie whisks. Cake batters are easily done also with either method. I can only assume that you didn't learn to use the DLX with its different approach to mixing. I say that only because your results are anomalies far from the norm.
cheers,
gary
I owned a KA for 20 years, I also own the Cuisinart stand mixer and the DLX. I completely disagree with your assessment that 2 mixers are needed. I have no problems mixing cake batter, frosting or cookies in the DLX. I've done cakes and cookies with both the roller and scraper and the whisk bowl and cake/cookies whisks. I don't even use my other mixers anymore.
I would agree w/ sosdogs. 'Had the 6qt prof - which had all metal gears. Mine mixed & kneaded 5lb batches of dough for 5 yrs. 3-4 batches/wk. It was noisy, but did the job. When it died, I bought & installed the metal replacement gear, but my confidence was lost after reading the experience of others. Apparently I got unusually long life from mine.
The Ankarsrum takes some getting used to, but I like it much better for bread. 'Mixed 11lb batches several times, and it seems quite happy doing so. Attachments are about twice the price of the KA.
For all-around use - I'd say the KA is better, but only useful for bread long-term, if you do the kneading by hand. If you're mostly using for bread - the Ankarsrum has been better at its job of bread than I am. If it has trouble like the KA, I'm going commercial.
Sos, I agree that the KA is a good all around mixer. I don't think America's Test Kitchen did a very good test of mixers, they said they failed the BUP because it could not whip 2 egg whites, and I have seen a video of someone whipping one egg white, so not sure what is going on. They also said they had trouble making bagel dough, they didn't go into details, but from the short video clip, I think they may have started with the flour first, which makes the outside dry, so it doesn't stick to the bowl and knead but instead gets pushed around. The instructions say to start with the water first, and I have seen a difference by starting with water in the bowl first. They did like the KA and rated the proline tops, and the Artisan was rated best value. In terms of durability, they admitted that as a final challenge, they tried to make 10 batches of pizza dough, and then 10 batches of bagel dough ( with cooling off breaks in between ) and that the Artisan's mechanism failed on the 7th batch of bagel dough part - and it was no longer in alignment, though it could be held in place by hand. Somewhat surprised they recommended that as a mixer, if it failed after 17 batches of dough. BTW, I don't make cakes, or cream butter, and don't even have the plastic bowl, but the DLX Assistent rocks when it comes to making dough. I have also whipped cream in it using the roller and scraper, and was pretty impressed.
It's clear from reading the ATK review that they didn't spend any time at all to learn how to use the DLX. Confirmation bias IMO. They are so used to planetary mixers they can't even comprehend another model.
So, after I decided I was going to order the DLX from Shop Amex, I saw that I had to add more money that I thought. I ended up getting the KA 7qt Pro. Meanwhile, I have no idea why I didn't order the Bosch instead, but I think I had a reason? Right now I don't know what that was because its cheaper than the KA and even my father-in-law (who I still don't know how he knows about mixers) said, why didn't you order a Bosch?
Back to the KA... It arrived. It's big, but fits on my counter. It's heavy. I don't think it will "walk away or off my counter." It's okay looking in Sugar Pearl Silver. It looks a little cheap. It doesn't work. Apparently, straight out out of the box it made a knocking noise. I called KA customer service as I didn't know if the noise was normal as I have never owned one before, but lo and behold it is not. Customer service was very nice and told me that they will be sending me a new one as soon as they come back in stock. I asked when that will be and this time of year - well who knows. It could take anywhere from 2-4 weeks or more. But they did offer 2 day express shipping when it finally does come in stock.
The first person I spoke with on the phone said to keep using the mixer while I wait for a new one, but I suspect the person regretted saying that as the next person I spoke with did not share the same sentiment. None the less, I did finish my 16 1/2 cups of Challah bread. The machine can definitely handle making it. Or maybe I say that because I don't know any better. Either way, I am content except for the fact it is broken before I even had the chance to use it (sort of).
As per the first customer service person's suggestion, I made Banana Chocolate Chip Muffins and Banana Bread. Soon I will be using it to make chocolate chip cookies and oatmeal cookies. I assume it will turn out fine besides from the noise.
Oh and something else strange, there were black tiny pieces on top of the dough hook. It was mixed in with some of the dough, but not in the actual dough I baked. Don't worry. I checked. But, I don't know what those black little pieces/flecks were. Could it be grease? Could it be part of the rubber gasket that is in between the dough hook, paddle, etc.? I find it concerning.
That's my update for now. I will let you know when the next one comes. I am just nervous that something is going to happen again and I only have 30 days to return the mixer. My father-in-law has offered to give me his Amex points so I can get the DLX and return the KA. That makes returning the KA quite tempting and just ordering the DLX.
I don't know how often people get a lemon KA, but it made me think I really made the wrong decision.
I personally wouldn't use the mixer. The flakes could be paint, it could be metal shards and could be grease. It's hard to say for sure. The dough hook and the spindle it connects to are both metal so there will be some wear and tear. Stick a clean q-tip in there and you'll see after the first use?
Let me ask after your first batch at the base of the unit did you have little metal pieces?I know I got them from using it the first time which was caused by the metal on metal of where the bowl touches the mixer stand.
I did not have metal shards in my dough or see any on the bottom of the bowl. So that seems to be a plus. But I asked my husband he confirmed the motor is making the knocking noise. So, I got a lemon.
As far as I can tell its coming from the rubber piece at the spindle or inbetween the rubber piece and the spindle? I stuck something inbetween and little black dots? came out. Is that normal? Do I have to clean it all out with a q-tip? I hope I don't sound like a dirty person. I promise I wiped down the mixer and cleaned all the parts before using. :|
Either way, KA is sending a new one at some point. I am big on fate and I feel like this may be a sign that I shouldn't keep the KA. Maybe not? Ok, I will keep you posted if you are interested. Otherwise, thank you everyone again.
I hope I didn't let anyone down by not ordering the DLX initially. I really wanted to until I saw how much more money I had to add (it was more than $150).
I wasn't asking about if it was in the bowl but instead if there were any below the bowl at the base of the mixer.
Oops. Sorry. No there were no metal shards below the bowl at the base of the mixer.
No problem. For me there were a ton so I returned it.
My thing is bagels mostly, but I do like to make Laugenbrezel, Hoagie Rolls, Pizza, Pasta, and I am finally beginning to make some Yeast Breads. Made White and White/Whole Wheat just this week. Even have a sourdough starter going. During the winter I have something going almost all the time. I had an old bread machine I inherited I used.
Two months ago I finally was ready to purchase a new mixer and I started researching, I too came down to the same two finalists, The Electrolux DLX Assistant or the K.A. 7-Quart Pro-Line (KSM7586PMZ1).
I looked at literally hundreds of web sites that say they are "unbiased" reviews on mixers and found them lacking for real usable info. I have searched web sites such as this one seeking every string about mixers I could find and although the opinions I found I trusted as honest, simply took me down to the same two choices. Still no decisive win of one over the other. One thing had from my research became obvious, If you only bake bread in large quantities you want the DLX. At about $850 :(.
I don't just bake bread in large quantities. But still I was torn, If I was really going to make the investment into a mixer, I wanted the best. So I continued to seek something that would tip the scales.
I sought out what few YouTube video reviews there are out there and again nothing really decisive. And I did see the video review referenced above from Americas Home Kitchen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5mBOGte5Zo
And it's reference at the end, "we made 10 batches of bagel dough with all these mixers and the winner is the K.A. KSM7586xxx. it powered through them all" sold me. .
I did find it odd that among the reviewed candidates the DLX Assistant was missing.
So suffice to say I have never owned a DLX Assistant. I cannot tell you if it is better or not. Only that I did not choose it.
My K.A. KSM7586PMZ1 arrived two weeks ago. The first thing I did of course was to make bagels. My bagel dough is a very stiff dough (54% hydration). As soon as I had combined all the ingredients and the initial dough ball formed my beautiful new mixer began to "hesitate" as it kneaded to dough. My hear sank, That darn review on YouTube lied...the mixer turned all right but would hesitate every few seconds. It didn't stop, simply hesitate, then continue to do it's thing. I thought my stiff bagel dough was too much for the motor, How could they have done ten batches without an issue and I am about to burn up the motor on the first batch. Not even a very large batch, Just about 7 cups flour total. I called the 800 Support line immediately.
The first thing the sweet young lady I talked to asked me was if my new mixer was making a "clicking" noise. She informed me that this was a known issue that they had seen in some of their mixers and although not a problem if it was happening they would replace immediately.
I said no and described how I thought my bagel dough was overpowering my brand new mixer motor. She explained that most mixers have a single speed that applies the same amount of torque to whatever you are mixing in a constant manner. But this model does not work like that, it has a computer chip in it that "governs" the amount of torque applied at any given moment based on the resistance of the materal being mixed. The hesitation I was seeing was the chip telling the motor to increase torque. The hesitation was the unavoidable result of that moment when the motor is told to increase torque and it changes gears. This was normal for it to do this when mixing dense doughs. I was so relieved. I thanked her and hung up, Finished my bagel dough "no problem .
After the dough was finished I went to clean the mixer and suddenly my heart sank again...there was "black" grease at the top of the mixer spindle right where it went into the housing of the mixer. There is a metal "washer" there as well and there was oil above the washer. I panicked and wiped it off and immediately called the 800 Support line again.
Surprisingly enough I got the same young lady. She was honest and said she had no idea where that oil came from. But she assured me of two things, one - that the housing above that spindle is "sealed" and the oil could not have come from inside the mixer where the motor is, and two - ALL the oil that K.A. uses to manufacture their mixers is food grade and not harmful if consumed. Since I had wiped it off so quickly I could not really describe to her what it looked like. I should have gotten a better look at it...she assured me that if and when I wanted they would replace my mixer but she suggested I wait a few days, and use it to see if the oil came back.
That all happened two weeks ago. I have used my mixer almost every day since then, on many different things. I have made numerous batches of bagels "no problem", The mixer hesitates as it works though the dough but keeps on trucking. And I have even used it to knead dough at higher speeds than "2". That nice young lady said "off the record" she has the same model and goes above "2" all the time.
The oil has never come back. My guess is these things are "lubricated" at the factory before packaging, The bowl slide had a white grease on them when I unpacked it I noticed. The "oil" that I saw was probably used to facilitate the installation of the washer.
I can tell you I am so pleased that I didn't spend the extra money on the Electrolux DLX Assistant. I believe that I got a more versatile, more user friendly, just as good mixer for less money.
I am sorry for such a long post, but I know how disappointed you must feel and wanted to share my experience with you and to encourage you to let them replace the one that "knocks". In the mean time keep using the one you have to get a better opinion of it's performance. Allow the new one to arrive and I am sure you will have many, many years of service from it.
BTW - I have been a chef for twenty-five years and all the kitchens I have ever worked in have had at least one table top K.A. mixer. They have all done great jobs. I have never worked in a kitchen that had a Electrolux DLX Assistant. I don't care what anyone else says, I think you made a good choice to go with the KitchenAid. I think I did as well.
I want to tell you thank you for responding. I was really starting to doubt my purchase, but you gave me confidence. Unfortunately, my KA was a lemon, but none-the-less you just reassured me and made me feel confident in my purchase.
You experienced most of the same concerns that I had and now I just feel so happy. LoL. So thank you again soooooooo much for responding and writing such a lengthy response. Seriously, I can't thank you enough.
I am still waiting for a new KA to come in the mail, but for now I continue to use the one I have. So far I have made tons of cookies, 16 1/2 cups of Challah bread, 1 White Bread (which came out AMAZING and no one believes I made it LoL) and frosting/whipped cream made out of coconut milk.
I have only used it on speed 2 for kneading as I am petrified to void the warranty and be out $550+.
Thank you all again! I will let everyone know when the new one finally arrives and if it still "knocks" and works more efficiently.
Best,
Lori
Kwonders, Thanks for the thorough post. As you pointed out, it is tough making a decision on which mixed to buy, and your detailed writeup will certainly help others in the same boat. Keep us updated. Btw, I agree with customer service, there are many lubricants that are specifically listed as food safe. I had not heard about the computer and motor speed issue, they should probably put that in the manual
Lori:
First, congrats on beginning you adventures in baking. I can assure you it is addictive.!
Second, if you do your research, you will find that your AmEx points are best spent on air travel. Point for point, you get way more for your points if you spend them on air travel. I use my AmEx for everything. Their points never expire. I am going to Cambodia in 2015 on a cruise and should have enough points to fly first class! It's taken me YEARS to save up that many points.
Third, I have a Magic Mill and a Kitchen Aid. I bought them about 15 years apart. They are both wonderful. For general purpose baking - cakes, cookies etc. The Kitchen Aid is the best bet. The new ones have a spiral dough hook. I advise you to get the one with the spiral dough hook if you decide to buy the KA. It works better than the regular dough hook found on the older models.
The Magic Mill is wonderful for LARGE quantities. Your average 2 layer cake and double recipe of toll house cookies will get lost in the Magic Mill. I am Jewish and make bread with 5 pounds of flour. The Magic Mill is the only home machine that can use that amount of flour. Bread dough using 4 to 5 cups of flour will get lost in the Magic Mill, but the KA will handle small batches perfectly. I have made quadruple recipes of sugar cookies (the kind you roll out) in my KA and it's perfect.
So, before you invest in a machine, think about how you plan to use it. Off hand, I'd recommend the KA, but that is only because I don't know about how large the batches of baked goods you will make. Use the machines properly, and you will get years of use. My KA is 22 years old.
Let us know what you decide!
That a small batch of dough looks lost in the DLX's large bowl does not imply it does not do as well as with a large batch. There are many people repeating this canard, so I decided to test it. I made small batches of variously hydrated doughs, from 60 to 70%. The flour in each case was 300g, or about 2 cups or slightly less. I didn't do that small of a batch for bagels (53% hydration) because while I will make 1# loaves of regular bread, I refuse to make less than a dozen bagels at a time. In all cases, the DLX mixed and kneaded effortlessly and efficiently.
Likewise, the DLX works flawlessly with cake batters for single layer 9x9s or the usual cookie recipe amounts (24 small or 12-18 large cookies).
I will repeat my thoughts from an earlier post: I don't think you have really learned to use the DLX to its capabilities.
On what is to me a humorous note, I have been trying to figure out how one's religion or tribe affects the operation of a mixer. :shrug: :smile:
cheers,
gary
it's craziness, and I make no excuses for the craziness. but here goes. in biblical times, a certain measure of flour was given to the levites/priests as payment for their services - if you will. they also got a specific portion of meat and other products. their duties didn't permit them to farm, or some other reason.'
thousands of years pass, the temple is gone along with it's prescribed sacrifices and live-in priests - but the commandment remains. what to do? in their craziness, "the rabbis" decided that a portion of dough from each batch of dough should be burned to remember the priests and sacrifices of biblical times. which brought up the issue of how MUCH dough needed to be burned (more on that if you want it), and it also brought up the issue of how large the batch of dough needed to be in order to merit burning a portion with a blessing.
so, in their wisdom, "the rabbis" decided how much flour was needed in order to merit separating the portion for burning with and without a blessing. but because we're Jewish, not all of "the rabbis" agreed... so some say 3 point something pounds of flour and others say 5 pounds of flour is needed to "separate dough with a blessing". and since it's always best to be sure, many of us, including myself, when we make challah - or any kind of bread - have to know how much flour we use. small batches do not require separating the portion for burning. larger amounts require separating a portion, but WITHOUT the blessing, and 5 pounds is enough to separate the "sacrificial" portion WITH a blessing, and since it's always good to perform a "mitzvah," or commandment, many of us use 5 pounds of flour....
the good news is that you don't have to bake all if it at one time. I freeze much of the dough for later use.
and THATS why I have a Magic Mill. I disagree with your opinion about small batches, but it's a free country and we're all entitled to our opinion.
so there you have it.
Talmudic law, esp.from the Gemara. Thank you, I don't recall Rabbi Klein's mention of that, though I suppose it fits with the requirements of tithing. In another life, I photographed a lot of Jewish weddings and Bar and Bat Mitzvahs. Rabbi Klein (Temple Emanu-el in Dallas) invited me to attend conversion classes to become more at ease with the customs.
I don't think it is crazy at all within its historical context. There would probably be no Jewish People without the Rabbinical councils that codified the requirements of daily life for the Jew after the second diaspora.
cheers,
gary
It's an astounding accomplishment. "The rabbis" managed to keep the people together for over 2000 years until Israel was re-establihed after the second world war.
That said, 5 pounds of flour makes a lot of dough....
Ta,
The Hadster
I'm going to have to to disagree, I've done a single batch of chocolate chip cookies in the DLX without any issues at all. I just made a 13x9 carrot cake for my daughters birthday using the roller and scraper in the metal bowl. Again not problem.
Gary, I have also done tests with the DLX with 100 grams of flour and it mixed well, so I agree with you, it works fine with all size batches.
for two dinner rolls. :-)
g
I have made 4 cup loaves of bread in my DLX and I have made 8 one pound loaves in it, and their was never a struggle either times. It is so easy to add things to the bowl since it's so big and open. I've creamed butter and sugar a million times with the roller, and you could probably mix cement in this sucker. It's so quiet, and there is no struggle at all. There is no hesitation ever, no matter what I throw in that thing. It is also shorter and fits under my annoyingly short cupboards. It's very light weight, but it doesn't feel like junk.
All of this being said, I just bought a Zo bread maker because I just haven't had time to make bread in the way I would like. And the first loaf that came out was real good.
I wouldn't spend any money on a KA if you want to mix bread dough, specifically whole wheat. The DLX is worth 500 dollars more than the average KA machine. I also have the 6qt professional KA. It was great for cake, ok for cookies. Fine for white bread. The DLX whips egg whites and cream way faster.
And that's my two cents. Take from it what you will. I haven't checked in on this site for a long time, but it seems more people are getting into the DLX, and I think they are great machines.
This is the older model KA, but is a video showdown on beating eggs and creaming butter - lift bowl KA vs. 450 watt Assistent - thought some of you might find it interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSsVlpile08&noredirect=1
I am no expert, but it seems both machines got the job done in the video? Or did I miss something?
Btw, after making a larger batch of pizza dough (6 cups flour, 6 tbsp oil, 2 cups water), 16 1/2 cups flour of challah (2x), tons of cookies (oatmeal raisin, chocolate chip, homemade oreo meets whoopie pies, madeleines), 2 loaves of white bread, cake, muffins, donuts, and I can't remember what else. I have used it every day since I got it. I had no idea what I was missing. But, I can tell, its no DLX. Its a pain to add ingredients. I mean its doable, but gets annoying even with the 1 pc pour shield. I don't bother with it most of the time. It works, but I have a feeling it won't last. I mean mine is supposedly a lemon, but still. So now, do I attempt to return it? Or just keep it and call it a day. :(
lbinny1
I am in the same shoes as you. I went through so much self talk, going back and forth and was almost going to get the DLX but got the KA proline 7qt this Christmas. It wasn't the money at all because I want to use this machine to exhaustion (I don't mean that in a bad way, just use it a lot), for a long time and want to enjoy using it and not worry about damaging it so I am without an expensive purchase within an year or two. If the mixer works it will pay me back in no time. But I have the KA now. I haven't used it as much as you but I am using it regularly. And while its not junk, as you have found, I do have a sinking feeling that it wont last many years or even a handful of years. I am not sure of that but I can feel its hesitations and noise. Well I too don't know what I am going to do. I got it from Williams Sonoma and still have time to return it. I could keep it but most people here think its not necessary to have both KA and DLX. Let's see. Almost every vendor has a return policy wouldn't you be able to return yours for a refund or credit if you wanted to do so? I will post what I finally do.
I have a KA mixer, and using the bread recipes in the booklet that came with the machine, I have stripped the gears several times and am now afraid to use it to make bread. It now sits in my basement, mostly unused! I bought an Assistant last year, and after adjusting my recipes to suit the machine, I love it. I would never recommend anyone buying a KA for making bread! The company would do nothing for me because I had owned the machine for too long before complaining. I bought the most powerful KA on the market at the time, but it just couldn't handle doughs that I used to make in my B&D bread machine.
If you still are able to return the KA, I would do so. After having used both, in my opinion the Ankarsrum is worth every penny extra. And yes, it does everything the KA will do. I use mine to make bread 3-4 times / week. It does take some getting used to, but I adjusted very quickly. If you KA is making funny noises (as mine did), it's straining to handle your doughs. I will never again use my KA to make dough!
Hope it all works out for you
Frances (Ottawa, Canada)
I also broke about 4 of the KA 7qt machines before finally demanding my 4 back and getting the ankarsrum. Beautiful machine, but is so different from a KA, it takes a bit to get used to. Worth the learning curve and every penny spent on it.
I have two of the NSF 7 quart Kitchenaid mixers. Both of mine are the commercial model and not the standard one. I bake 100-200 loaves of bread per week on them and all of my batches are for 4 full size 9x5 loaves. I do like the 8 quart bowls better on batches that have more flour then my standard loaves (12 grain bread).
Have you had all these problems with the 7 quart commercial model KSM7990 or did you get the Kitchenaid Pro LIne 7 quart mixer? White both of them look the same and have the same motor, I think the NSF model is more robust, but I have only used the commercial model so I have nothing to compare it to.
WoW! That is a lot of bread. Maybe I am doing something wrong?
I make challah, nothing too crazy. So I don't know why I have issues. But I found that when I make 16 cups of flours at one time, the dough rises up the hook and it struggles to knead. When I make white bread (1 loaf) or Whole Wheat Honey Maple (2 loaves) there is no problem.
I have the KA Pro Line. Maybe that is why I have these problems? Originally I was deciding between the commercial version and the pro, but because they had the same motor, etc. I figured they functioned the same and I opted to save some money. I guess I made the wrong choice. If KA, decide to refund my money I would probably get an Ankarsum.