June 16, 2013 - 10:07am
sourdough focaccia
Focaccia is one of our favorite breads for sandwiches. We've found tuna fish salad, Italian sausage with carmalized onions and peppers, and grilled portabella mushrooms with red pepper aoili are especially good. The freezer is well stocked with lean sourdough loaves, and baguettes so for this week's sourdough bake I made focaccia. This 72% hydrated loaf is 100% KA Bread flour (17% prefermented in the levain) 4.2% extra-virgin olive oil, and 2% salt. The dough was retarded 15 hours overnight, and baked at 400°F in a convection oven. We cut it into 4" squares, and freeze it thawing only what we need for a meal.
David G
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Really really nice crumb for only 72% hydration (I know that sounds crazy as 72% is where it starts to get slack) but I've made focaccias that rival the hydration of low level ciabattas to get this open crumb. The cold bulk ferment must have helped with this. Looks just great. What kind of pan do you use?
Happy Baking
josh
The focaccia was baked in a parchment lined half-sheet pan.
I agree, I use cold fermentation for most breads I make. However, I use a wine cooler at 54°F in lieu a household refrigerator at 38°F - 40°F. I get good open crumb at as little as 65%. Here is an example:
These baguettes were hydrated at only 65%, and bulk fermented (commercial yeast) at 54°F for about 15 hours.
Thanks for the encouragement.
David G
Looks great. I bet that certainly makes a perfect sandwich bread. I was just saying after John posted his Foccacia that it's about time I make some myself.
...with this dough for the last few weeks. I've made sandwich buns, and pizza pies with it simply changing the shaping. I didn't take pics of the buns, but plan on making another dozen soon. Pulled pork with Carolina style BBQ sauce works well with this focaccia.
If you don't have a favorite focaccia formula of your own, give this one a try.
David G
I would like to make a sandwich / panini out of that bread.
Nice baking/
It's been a fun couple of bakes, and a change of pace from sourdough batards. And I'm trying to convince my wife she should by me a panini press for my birthday ;-)
David G
Love those big holes in the focaccia! A keeper indeed.
Evon
From a functional point of view, open crumb breads with a near flatbread physical profile are great for sandwiches, while preserving your shirt-front and lap from drippings;-)
David G
The baguettes look awesome. Would you share that formula? How do they rank compared to others? I looked and my focaccia is 90% roughly using pâté fermente and yeast. Same crumb at best.
Great baking
josh
The formula is very simple:
100% King Arthur AP flour
65% Water (I usually use 67% water)
2% Salt
1/2 tsp Instant dry yeast (IDY)
I'm convinced, however, the open crumb is due primarily on how one manipulates the dough, and its long, cool bulk fermentation. Rather than repeat myself, look below at the response to Khalid. If you have more questions give don't hesitate: ask.
An alternative is make a poolish:
1/2 the total flour, equal weight of water (100% hydration), 1/8th teaspoon IDY. Mix, cover, and let stand at room temperature 8 to 16 hours (I typically do 8)
Add salt, and remaining flour and water. Reduce additional yeast to 1/4 tsp. Proceed as usual.
Happy baking
David G
Lovely open crumb, David. Isn't it extra chewy with the KA bread flour?
-Khalid
I use 100% KA All Purpose flour in baguettes regardless of what hydration I use. My usual formula is 67% hydrated, made with commercial yeast, although in my exploration of baguettes I varied the hydration (65% to 72%). I did the 65% hydration to confirm the long, cold bulk ferment contribution to open crust. 67% yields a good, open crumb with KA AP flour, and a reasonably soft crumb too despite the relatively high protein content. Sometime ago I experimented with other brands of AP flour including KA's french style flour. They all produced good, open crumb, but the flavor wasn't there. One regionally popular brand actually produced a very bad-tasting flavor. KA AP, and the long ferment deliver an intense wheaty flavor we love (especially my wife). I also found natural levain mutes the wheaty flavor, still a nice baguette, but commercial yeast is preferred.
The focaccia is made with bread flour; it's crumb is only lightly chewy softened by the olive oil. I use the higher protein flour because it makes handling the wet dough a bit easier. I've made this dough three times in the past three weeks. All ingredients were exactly the same--including the same bag of flour--in both amounts and ratios. And with one exception the doughs were mixed, manipulated, fermented, shaped and baked in exactly the same manner.
The one exception was their gluten-building manipulations. About a year ago, after much experimenting and note-taking I reached the conclusion that mixing and manipulation has the primary influence on gluten strength. I'm aware I can read that conclusion on TFL in a thousand or more postings, or in any good bread-baking book. Nonetheless, I wanted to understand the nuances. I am still amazed at how I can feel the dough strengthen, and yet become more elastic and tenacious over the span of three simple stretch-and-folds and two rest periods.
What I now use for all lean (or nearly lean) doughs is:
DDT 54°F--I cold ferment at that temperature. It is logical, to me, that I should start fermentation at that temperature.
I machine mix only the flours, chilled water, and levain (IDY or natural) until I have a shaggy ball. The dough is placed in the refrigerator or wine chiller for 1 hour. I measure dough's temperature to make the choice; usually because of mixing friction it's higher than DDT so it goes in the refrigerator. The ball remains in the mixer bowl. I sprinkle the salt on top the ball of dough before resting it.
After hydrating (autolyse) I machine-knead the dough for two minutes on speed 1 (KitchenAid stand mixer) Then I knead the dough on speed 2, the time duration varies with the dough type and hydration.
Sourdoughs, 68% hydration: mostly white flour (85% to 100%) three minutes, 50% WW seven minutes, and baguettes (67% hydration) four minutes.
Subsequently: I rest the doughs for 1 hour (in the refrigerator or the wine chiller) then perform S&F (usually three) with one hour of rest between, always in the cold environment.
Focaccia, 72% hydration: ??? minutes: not decided yet--this was the exception.
First focaccia: 7 minutes. The dough was still terribly sticky, after one hour rest. I abandoned trying to stretch and fold it, and used the slap-and-fold (Bertinet method?) for about 10 minutes. Subsequently I did two S&F after 1 hour rest each time. This dough was used for pizza dough.
Second focaccia: 10 minutes. Dough was still sticky after one-hour rest; had to use bench scrapper to free from surface, but was able to perform first S&F. Last two S&F dough only slightly sticky. This dough was used for making a dozen sandwich rolls.
Third focaccia (this thread): 17 minutes! Three subsequent S&F's went with out any difficult. Dough, while still very tacky* was easy to manipulate.
In subsequent focaccia bakes, I'll cut back on this time until I find the sweet spot.
* I define sticky dough vs. tacky dough in this way: Without using flour, oil or water as a lubricant when manipulating the developing dough the dough adheres to your fingers, and small amounts remain on your fingers afterwards. Tacky doughs adhere to your fingers, but leave no residue afterwards.
David G
David for the info,
I too have learned from practice and of course the 1000 posts you speak of on TFL that less machine mixing and stretch and folds make for the best gluten structure. My 90% focaccia though is certainly mixed in a machine. its about 10 minutes on hi speed and it pulls away from bowl. But again I'm aiming for a higher DDT as I finish it at room temp relatively fast. I bet a stretch and fold would do wonders. Maybe I'll try it. I'll deffinately try your baguette formula.
I'll let you know how it goes. Your focaccia looks ready for the books though.
Thanks Again
Josh
Thanks for the elaborate reply,and the valuable info., David!
-Khalid
Hi David,
Sorry to confuse you. I haven't yet adopted the Bread Bakers' Guild of America's "approved" way to communicate bread formulae. When I first chose to improve my bread baking skills, and in the process encountered Baker's Math, unaware of the BBGA's august influence, I wrote a spreadsheet that aids my baking, and I've been reluctant to change it just to be in sync with BBGA. Consequently, I make a habit of providing the minimum information regarding personal bread formulae such that any one wanting to replicate it can given the posted information. However, I understand it takes some grey-matter work, and probably is confusing to many readers.
The key is answering a couple of questions, and that in Baker's Math the total flour is the basic reference, i.e. 100%.
Using the information I provided--This 72% hydrated loaf is 100% KA Bread flour (17% prefermented in the levain) 4.2% extra-virgin olive oil, and 2% salt.--one merely has to answer the first question: "How much dough do I want to make?" The minimal information will then suffice.
Example: For ease of calculation lets assume you want to make one kilogram of focaccia dough: 1000g of dough.
Total dough = weight of flour, water, salt and olive oil.
Let X = weight of the flour
1000g = X +.72X + .042X + .02X = X x 1.782
X = 1000/1.782 = 561g (rounded to the nearest integer)
Flour = 561g
Water = .72 x 561 = 404g
Salt = .02 x 561 = 11g
EVOO = .042 x 561 = 24g
Note: 561g + 404g + 11g + 24g = 1000g = desired dough weight.
Now the second question: How much of the flour should be pre-fermented to make the levain?
That's a question we could debate for hours, and at least half the bakers debating wouldn't agree with the other half. 15% to 40% is reasonable for lean doughs. I chose 17%
And that leads to to the third and final question: At what hydration do you want to build the levain?
I keep my seed starter at 100% hydration. Most breads I make with natural levain I keep the levain at 100% hydration. I make this focaccia with 100% hydrated levain.
Therefore:17% of 561g = 95g, and because the levain is 100% hydrated: Water (for the levain) = 95g
561 - 95 = 466, and 404 - 95 = 309. Consequently, the ripe levain will weigh 190g, and the final dough will be:
Levain: 190g
Flour: 466g
Water: 309g
Salt: 11g
EVOO: 24g
Final dough weight = 190 + 466 + 309 + 11 + 24 = 1000g
However, if you wanted to use a stiff levain, say 60% hydration, then the final dough formulation would be:
Levain: 152g
Flour: 466g
Water: 347g
Salt: 11g
EVOO: 24g
Note: 152 + 466 + 347 + 11 + 24 = 1000.
I hope it's clear, and that you've seen you can make any amount of dough you want to knowing only the ingredient's percentages relative to the flour's weight, and you know how much dough you want, how wet you want it to be, and how you want to build your levain.
Happy baking,
David G
Pamela
I'm only seeing a thumbnail-size picture, nonetheless, your focaccia looks great.
Immediately, after retrieving the dough from the cooler, I degas the dough gently, and shape the loaf in a half-sheet pan. I don't oil the pan; I line it with parchment paper. I very lightly oil the top of the loaf to keep my fingers from sticking while I shape. I use a sprayer, probably less than a tsp. of oil at that point. I cover the loaf with a light-weight linen tea towel, and then a plastic sheet and let it proof: at room temperature in the summer (76°F), or in my home-made proof box in the winter (82°F). So the loaf warms naturally while it proofs. It takes approximately two to two-and-a-half hours to proof. I then brush the top of the loaf with extra virgin olive oil (approximately 1 Tbls.) and using both hands clawed indent the top of the proof loaf, and sprinkle it with course-ground sea salt. Then directly into a 400°F oven in convection mode (I don't use a stone for panned loaves) . If you don't have a convection oven I recommend 425°F. I don't use steam for focaccia due the oil moistened top.
I don't use any olive oil in the recipe I use to make ciabatta, but I've seen some that do. I generally make ciabatta at 75% percent hydration, and shape the loaves relying on generous flour dusting to prevent sticking. I don't retard ciabatta dough.
That said, I think this recipe would make a fine ciabatta. Note, however, I think the open crumb benefits from the overnight retardation.
Two different stimuli resulted in my doing buns, and another time pizza using this focaccia dough.
We eat lunch in town (Ocala, FL) about twice a month, usually one at an Italian restaurant. I've ordered sandwiches served on a "focaccia" buns: to date I've been disappointed. I made buns at home just to see if I could do better. I found that my shaping the dough into buns--dividing and pre-shaping into balls, and final shaping degases the dough more than traditional panning. Furthermore, the surface is drawn tighter. The overall result is a less open crumb--still not as disappointing as what I've purchased.
At this point, I've abandoned focaccia buns. I bake a half-sheet pan loaf, and cut it into twelve squares. Unless we entertain, it lasts the two of use three or four weeks frozen, thawing only one or two pieces at a time.
I was watching The Food Channel or Cooking Channel--a frequent pass time--and saw a show reviewing pizza shops. One's niche was using focaccia dough only as it's base. My go-to pizza dough is simply a 50/50 mix of AP and Semolina flours, water, salt, yeast and a little olive oil in the mix: shaped, topped and baked relatively thin. My experiment was fun, enjoyable and tasty. But I've only done it once.
However, I also often make this focaccia dough with, chopped, sun-dried tomatoes (BJ's brand: preserved in olive oil with capers and herbs). I mix the chopped tomatoes in by spreading them on each fold during the final stretch and fold: delicious!
Hope this answers all your questions.
Good luck with doubling the formula, it will likely be awesome.
David G
David, here's a better photo. Still new at posting here. Well, I made a few mistakes while making but will improve with the next batch. I used too much oil, too big a pan, and messed up the proofing. It is a fine recipe. I love all sourdough recipies but don't understand when some add both starter and commercial yeast to a dough...I get the extra rise, but somehow it just doesn't taste as good.
Someone just like me! I always look first for the not-so-goods, oh-I'm-embarasseds, and out-right mistakes.
That bread looks great, and, knowing the formula you used, I know it's tasty ;-)
Keep on truckin'
David G
Thanks so much David!
Mistakes or no, I do know what to do with dough, been working with it for 48 years but did not break out of the usual routine until recently. There is a great joy with working the dough, almost meditative and satisfying too...:) I always am very critical of my self because I know what's really good. Call me snootie, but I judge a restaurant by the bread they serve. I thinks it's a shame to have such wonderful gourmet food and dull, store bought bread. I guess I'm a bread person through and through!!
With your recipe I used 00 italian flour, weighed it as close as I could because my scale is not that great, and added a tsp of barley malt syrup. I only showed the really good looking cuts of focaccia because some of the other's were thin and crispy....I guess that's not all bad, but not exactly what I wanted.
I will probably experiment further until I get it perfect, cause that's what I do. I have some Italian duram flout too and would like to figure out how to use that....can't wait!
Truckin' on,
Pamela
Hi David,
I am new to sourdough and wanted to try out the recipe for focaccia that you have shared. I am confused on the levain build up(composition) in terms of How much sourdough starter should I add for building the levain.
Assuming (as in the example) 17% of the dough is the levain and at 100% hydration that comes to 190 gm & with 100% hydration i
How much of this would be the starter - is there any rule of thumb for this . I was thinking of:
Starter - 20 gm
flour - 85 gm
water - 85 gm
Am assuming that the starter is 100% hydration.
Is there a method for deciding not the amount of starter.
Thanks
Add EVOO after hydrating (autolyse) the flour. My reasoning is this. Oil will "coat" both the flour granules and, perhaps, the yeast cells too, and, therefore, possibly slowing hydration . So I add the oil after hydration is completed, also the salt. I am aware there is a controversy that adding the sourdough levain or IDY to the water and flour mixture before hydration is complete is not a proper thing to do. I do it, it's convenient, and it gives the dough a jump-start on fermentation. Furthermore, since the levain is already 100% hydrated it won't compete with the added flour for water, and 7g of IDY isn't going to "steal" much water from the flour.
Salt, on the other hand, does compete with the flour for water. Furthermore, salt dissociates in water and the sodium and chlorine ions form chemical bonds with water molecules. Hence, salt water has different physical properties than unsalted water. I don't know if the difference is significant re flour hydration, but I don't add it until after hydration is complete. I do, however, sprinkle the salt on top of the hydrating mixture. I do this because, like many other bakers, I once left salt out of my final dough. I picked up the trick from an article in the Baker's Guild new-letter about the USA Baking Team. On the other hand, Mini cautioned me that she had had a bad experience with the salt "clumping" when she tried the trick. So far, I've not had any problems. For bread dough I use a sea salt that is not ground fine, but the flakes are smaller than Morton Kosher salt.
Incorporating oil into the hydrated dough isn't easy. I typically make only I or 2 kilograms of dough for a weekly bake. I incorporate the oil by hand in a bowl folding it in with a bowl scraper. The process also acts like an initial kneading also.
I also brush the top of the proofed loaf with about a Tbs of additional olive oil and sprinkle it lightly with salt. (I'm not sure I mentioned that in the original post). My wife insists I do this, regardless of any other topping we might add.
Thinking about enhanced focaccia, last week I baked a sourdough focaccia with 1/2 cup of diced, sun-dried tomatoes, a third folded into the dough with each S&F. I used BJ's spiced, olive oil preserved sun-dried tomatoes--capers, peppers, garlic and spices in the oil--and topped as decribed above. Arguably, one of the most tasty focaccias I've ever made. I'm going to make it again end of this week, but will substitute garlic-infused olive oil (I simmered a whole head of cracked garlic for 30 minutes in a quart of EVOO).
Life is good!
David G
I haven't been here for a long long time and can someone tell me where I might find Davids focaccia recipe?
The example formula I used in answering Verve's question is the formula I used to make the focaccia discussed in this thread, and I still use it. I baked a dough weighing 1700g in a 15" x 22" sheet pan this past weekend. I calculated the amounts of flour, water, olive oil, and pre-fermented flour @ 100% hydration as I describe in the referenced post.
You can make any amount of this bread formula, or any bread formula knowing the Baker's percentages of each ingredient.
The only thing that is tricky is how to handle the preferment percentages of flour and water.
The Bread Bakers Guild of America's practice is to lump the combined water and flour weights into a single percentage. Before I learned of their discipline, I'd settled into an alternate practice of listing the preferment water and the preferment flour percentages individually.
I'd chosen that way since both the preferment water and flour weights contribute to the total dough weight. However, to make the total dough's hydration accurately you have to know the individual weights of the water and flour in the preferment.
The weights of a 100% hydrated 100 gram levain is 50g of water, and 50 grams of flour, but the the weights of 50% hydrated 100 gram "stiff" levain is 33 grams of water and 67 grams of flour.
In either discipline one needs to know these weights to get the final dough hydration correct.
I'm not saying my approach is better than the BBGA's, It's simply what I used, in ignorance, six or seven years ago, when I wrote the spread sheet I use for making my own formulae, recording other's formulae, or converting recipes to formulae. I still use that spread sheet, unaltered.
That all said, if you aren't comfortable using Baker's math, tell me how much 72% hydrated dough you want (in grams or ounces) and I'll send you a recipe with the ratios identical to the focaccia I baked for this thread.
David G
David
Your Focaccia looks amazing. Did you ever find a "sweet spot" for mixing time? I read above that you went up to 17 minutes with three S&F after. Your info is much appreciated.
Austin
Hi Austin,
This approach to focaccia is in our retinue forever. There is always at least one loaf, pre-sliced, in the freezer. However, I also make focaccia with commercial yeast--my wife prefers it. I simply substitute an eight-hour, identical weight and hydration poolish for the sourdough preferment. This results in a slight change in that I use King Arthur Bread Flour in my sourdough starter while the IDY poolish is made with King Arthur All Purpose flour. Since each preferment only accounts for 17% of the total flour I don't think it matters much. Nonetheless, I mention it because of the specifics of my answer to your question.
Specific to your question I think the mixing time is dependent on two major factors: the flour's protein content, and the mixer used.
We bake most breads with King Arthur flours (Bread, AP and Whole Wheat). Our focaccia is made entirely with AP flour except for the above caveat re our sourdough preferment. Consequently, with reasonable confidence we can assume the protein content is the same bake-to-bake. I'm not advocating KA flours over any other favorites. We use it mainly because of its consistent availability and price in our area. However, I do advocate finding favorite brands of primary flours for your pantry, and sticking with them. We've baked with KA for more than a decade with consistent successes.
The second half of my answer is based on a more recent event. My Kitchenaid stand mixer--a Pro 600--bit the dust after four years use. I've a smaller Kitchenaid 5-quart mixer I've used for 20 years, but I chose to buy a Bosch Universal Pllus. The first time I used it it was immediately apparent I'd have to adjust mixing times. The Bosch is clearly more efficient. The "sweet spot" for focaccia with the Pro 600 has remained 17 minutes since first making the bread. With the Bosch I'm currently using 13 minutes which produces a dough tighter than the Pro 600's. I'm likely to reduce it one or two more minutes over the next few focaccia bakes. I suggest you find the "sweet spot" for your personal situation. The "sweet spot"for this formula is probably in the 12 to 18 minute minute range for most stand mixers.
A couple more comments: I believe the consistent success of our focaccia is its long (overnight), reduced temperature fermentation. All of my lean-dough formulae benefit from this step for both sourdough and IDY preferment leavening; both in flavor and crumb texture.
And I continue to make most of my breads using a minimum machine-mix initial step followed by 3 or 4 S&F. I can judge the strength of the gluten development better. The initial machine kneading is adjusted to be just enough to make the first S&F manageable. I use a dry polyurethane cutting-board for dough hydrated at and below 70%, and a light coating of vegetable oil--EVOO for focaccia--on the board and my finger-tips for wetter doughs. The diamond pattern texture of the board's surface grips the dough lightly which helps to hold the dough's stretch as its tenacity increases
Hope this answers your question. I've been often accused of telling one how a clock works when all the wanted to know was the time of day.
Happy baking,
David G
David
Thank you for the info, my wife and I are attempting to open a sandwich shop in Chicago and bake our own sourdough focaccia. Your information is helping us get there.
Best
Austin
Keep us informed with your progress. There has been a host of TFLers that have made their passion into businesses.
David G
Austin,
Your sandwich shop goal triggered another thought about my focaccia formulae I'd forgotten to mention in my reply to you above.
I chose the amount of preferment flour to be 17% ( 34% using the BBGA format of the total weight of the preferment) for the poolish formula. I use 1/8th tsp. of yeast in the eight-hour poolish at room temperature--approximately 76°F. That amount is sufficient that no more yeast is needed for the final dough which ferments overnight for 15 hours, in my wine cooler set at 54°F. Similarly, I found the same amount of my ripe sourdough culture was sufficient with fermentation for the same time and temperature.
You will want to adjust your formulae to accommodate your schedule, fermenting temperature and culture strength.
I'm probably preaching to the choir, no offense is intended. I wouldn't feel right if I hadn't mentioned these details.
David G
Made some French onion soup a few days ago. Didn't have any baguettes so I substituted Focaccia. Cut it into rounds to fit the bowl, then I toasted it and quartered the rounds. Placed it on top of the ladled soup with two quarters crust-side up, and two crumb side up. Sprinkled on gruyere shavings and back under the broiler to melt the cheese.
I'm not going back to toasted baguette; I'm serving French-Italian onion soup.
A couple of months ago we gave some fresh-baked Focaccia to a good friend. A day later she sent us a thank-you email praising the bread: toasted with butter. We've been eating Focaccia for at least a decade, but never simply toasted.
You're never too old to learn something new.
David G