San Francisco-style Sourdough Bread & Flaxseed Rye
This weekend, I baked another version of my San Francisco-style Sourdough and Hamelman's Flaxseed Rye Bread.
I baked two large bâtards of San Francisco-style sourdough bread. My procedures were modified to accommodate other demands on my time. My starter was fed only once before mixing the levain, and the activated starter was not retarded. The levain was retarded. The levain was then fermented at 76 rather than 85ºF. (I document these details for my own reference, to see if the differences make a difference. Others may find comparison of the procedures I used among my sequential bakes of this bread of some interest. Or not.)
Preliminaries
I started with my stock refrigerated 50% starter that had been fed two weeks ago. This feeding consisted of 50 g active starter, 100 g water and 200 g starter feeding mix. My starter feeding mix is 70% AP, 20% WW and 10% whole rye flour.
I activated the starter with a feeding of 40 g stock starter, 100 g water and 100 g starter feeding mix. This was fermented at room temperature for 16 hours, then refrigerated for about 20 hours. I then mixed the stiff levain.
Stiff levain | Bakers' % | Wt (g) for 1 kg | Wt (g) for 2 kg |
Bread flour | 95 | 78 | 157 |
Medium rye flour | 5 | 4 | 8 |
Water (Warm) | 50 | 41 | 82 |
Liquid starter | 80 | 66 | 132 |
Total | 230 | 189 | 379 |
Dissolve the starter in the water. Add the flour and mix thoroughly until the flour has been completely incorporated and moistened.
Ferment at room temperature for 6 hours. Refrigerate for 12 hours.
Remove from refrigerator and ferment further for 3 hours at 76ºF.
Final dough | Bakers' % | Wt (g) for 1 kg | Wt (g) for 2 kg |
AP flour | 90 | 416 | 832 |
WW Flour | 10 | 46 | 92 |
Water | 73 | 337 | 675 |
Salt | 2.4 | 11 | 22 |
Stiff levain | 41 | 189 | 379 |
Total | 216.4 | 953 | 2000 |
Method
In a stand mixer, mix the flour and water at low speed until it forms a shaggy mass.
Cover and autolyse for 40 minutes
Add the salt and levain and mix at low speed for 1-2 minutes, then increase the speed to medium (Speed 2 in a KitchenAid) and mix for 6-8 minutes. Add flour and water as needed. The dough should be rather slack. It should clean the sides of the bowl but not the bottom. (Note: Today's dough was considerably looser than any of the previous mixes using this formula. It has been raining heavily. I assume my flours had a higher moisture content. I considered adding flour but did not.
Transfer to a lightly floured board and do a stretch and fold and form a ball.
Place the dough in a lightly oiled bowl and cover tightly.
Ferment at 76º F for 31/2 to 4 hours with a stretch and fold at 45 and 95 minutes. (Note: Even after the first of these foldings, the dough was very smooth and had good strength. After the second folding, it was quite elastic.)
Divide the dough into 2 equal pieces. (Note: I had made 2 kg of dough. I had decided to bake two large bâtards today rather than three or four smaller boules.)
Pre-shape as rounds and rest, covered, for 10 minutes.
Shape as boules or bâtards and place in bannetons. Place bannetons in plastic bags.
Proof at room temperature (68-70º F) for 1-2 hours.
Cold retard the loaves overnight.
The next morning, proof the loaves at 85º F for 3 hours. (If you can't create a moist, 85 degree F environment, at least try to create one warmer than “room temperature.” For this bake, I took two loaves out of the fridge and started proofing them. I took the third loaf out about an hour later and stacked it balanced on top of the other two. I did one bake with the first two loaves and a second bake with the third loaf.)
45-60 minutes before baking, pre-heat the oven to 480º F with a baking stone and steaming apparatus in place.
Transfer the loaves to a peel. Score the loaves as desired, turn down the oven to 450º F, steam the oven, and transfer the loaves to the baking stone. (Note: These loaves were baked at a lower temperature for a longer time because of their larger mass. A boule of the same weight would require an even longer bake because the center of the loaf is further from the oven heat.)
After 15 minutes, remove the steaming apparatus, and turn down the oven to 425º F/Convection. (If you don't have a convection oven, leave the temperature at 450º F.)
Bake for another 20-25 minutes.
Turn off the oven, and leave the loaves on the stone, with the oven door ajar, for another 15 minutes.
Transfer the loaves to a cooling rack, and cool thoroughly before slicing.
Comparing this bake to previous ones, the crust was thin and crunchy-chewy. The crumb was quite chewy. The flavor was good with a mild sourdough tang and a more prominent flavor from the whole grains. I think the differences are attributable to my having one less feeding of the firm starter and not fermenting it at the higher temperature.
Hamelman's Flaxseed Rye
Hamelman's Flaxseed Rye crumb
This bake was inspired by hansjoakim's recent bake of this bread. Looking through my TFL blog, I found I had only baked this bread once before, back in September, 2009. (See Hamelman's Flax seed rye bread - Thanks, hansjoakim!) That time, I made one large boule. I found the dough extremely slack. This time, I substituted first clear flour for the AP, and the dough was tacky but much less goopy. This time, I made two 500 g bâtards. I need to make more rye breads, if only to practice my "chevron cut" scoring until I get it right!
Recalling how delicious this bread was and how much my wife - not a big rye bread fan - enjoyed it, I am amazed that it's been so long since I baked it again. Once more, I must thank hansjoakim for the prompt to bake this delicious bread.
The flavor of this bake was as good as I remembered. It was delicious just cooled and the next morning, toasted - a nice accompaniment to pickled herring and scrambled eggs. And, again, my wife enjoyed it a lot. It is telling that she chose it over the San Francisco Sourdough for her own breakfast.
David
Comments
Although I like both, the flaxseed rye would probably be my first choice.
Paul
Both are good, but the the rye is extraordinary. Good choice!
David
Looking good David! That is a long process. I counted roughly 78 hours including the starter activation and baking. That is as long as Josh's process which I started on Thursday evening and finally baked Sunday afternoon. (Haven't cut it, yet so don't know what it tastes like but will post later on Monday, free time willing).
What percentage protein is your AP flour David?
Lovely shaping and scoring on those ryes. :)
Syd
Except for the day you mix the final dough and baking day, the time demands per day are, at most, two 10 minute segments.
My AP flour is 11.7% protein.
David
Hi David,
Okay, I get it...time to bake this loaf! Your are the third one posting this Flaxseed Rye and I can't ignore it anymore....Now to make a spot for it in my baking line up!
Yours looks wonderful. Methinks your wife, loving your SF sourdough, simply wanted a change of pace....and who could resist such a beautiful loaf anyway.
Thanks for the nudge and thanks to Hans and Marcus for their postings of this loaf...
Janet
and I already baked an earlier version of your SFSD that had a little more Rye and WW. So I'm with Paul and will probably bake the rye flax seed first. They both look very professionally done as always. A very nice bake
Bake on.
David--
Are you saying that higher fermentation temperature should yield a sourer flavor?
Nice looking breads. I wish Cat liked flax.
Glenn
That's my current understanding. The exact chemical basis for this keeps escaping me, somewhat like the dough squishing between my fingers when I add the salt and additional water when making Tartine BCB.
There are so many other factors besides temperature, though - The starter hydration (more firm->more acetic acid) and the length of fermentation (more time->more sour), for example.
David
Hi Glenn,
There are several things that favor a more sour flavor in a starter because they effect the yeast:LAB ratio.
The following scale was presented to me by Debra Wink and it shows the 5 factors that we can control to get the results we want in our starters.
The items on the left of the scale will produce a milder starter while the items on the right will produce a more sour starter.
Flour: 100% White <-------------------------> 100% whole grain..
Temperature: Cool <--------------------------> Warm
Hydration: Drier <-----------------------------> Wetter
Refreshment Rate / Frequency: Smaller/ more frequent <--------------------------> larger/ less frequent
Refreshment Point: Under-ripe <--------------------------> Over-ripe
All of the items on the right will produce a more sour starter due to the fact that they favor bacterial growth and the bacteria, as you know, are the critters that are responsible for the flavor in sd.
Hope this helps. I know this info. made a world of difference to me when she spelled it all out.
Take Care,
Janet
There must be a similar scale for bread, or does a sourer starter necessarily result in a sourer bread? Or does the same scale apply?
The most confusing factor to me has been the impact of the proportion of pre-fermented dough. On the one hand, a larger proportion of starter in the final dough - especially when it's over 50% - can make for a sourer bread. On the other hand, a smaller amount of starter, resulting in a longer fermentation, can also result in higher acid content and more sour. This makes my brain turn to mush.
David
I've probably read about most of those factors, but it's great to see it described in one place so clearly. Thanks.
Glenn
Hi David,
A couple of things worth mentioning before I reply to your response and they are:
Based on #1 above the results I get with my doughs will be very different from the results someone using BF or AP store bought flours will get. Even store bought whole wheat flours.
Based on #2 all of what I have to say on taste etc. is second hand and very subjective based upon whom my 'taster' is. ( I can only report on the aromas created by my leavens and doughs.)
Taking all that into consideration, what I have to say should be taken with a large amount of salt as it comes from indirect sources.
My first thought is that yes, a more sour starter will create a more sour loaf due to the bacteria already present in it. By changing the environment that the yeast and bacteria are being cultured in you are changing the population in that culture. The ones that thrive in lower temps will have an advantage over the ones that prefer warmer temps. Sounds reasonable but may not contain any truth at all!!!!
Debra Wink has several pieces here that go into great depth on how population and environment influence yeast/LAB ratios which then influence different tastes in breads. (I know you are well versed in all that she has contributed here and mention this for others who may read this and may not know of all of her writings.)
Another great source for the science behind all of this is Emily Buehler's book 'Bread Science'. The second chapter in that book is full of all sorts of information - most of which I still can't comprehend :-)
Another excellent source is Dan DiMuzio's book 'Bread Baking'. His I do understand as it is written more for someone that doesn't have a science background....I fit that profile :-) He essentially spells out the differences between homofermentative bacteria (they prefer warmer temps.) and heterofermentative bacteria that thrive in the cooler temps. and that each produce flavors according to those temp. differences.
What I also discovered is that the opposite is true for freshly milled whole grains....so here I really can't comment on the final results simply because I have no first hand experience on which to base my results.....
Mike Avery and Peter Reinhart both address the issue of more pre-fermented flour in a loaf and less pre-fermented flour. Both have different ways of dealing with quantities to get the results you are after. PR uses a significant amount of IY in his final build in his book 'WGB' where he introduces his 'epoxy method' and the pre-doughs he uses with whole grains. Reasoning being that flavor has already been developed by the 2 pre-doughs and another long bulk fermenting when the 2 pre-doughs and the final ingredients would be counter productive. Mike Avery does not use IY. Simply a balance between amounts used to get the results you are seeking. (AKA experimenting) (Please not that both of these bakers are dealing in my medium of whole grains....)
Long winded here and I am thinking I haven't told you anything that you don't already know.
Head spinning is common in my kitchen and this whole topic is HUGE and I really don't think there is one simple answer. Too much is still unknown. I have read that all the bacteria in sds still haven't been identified! Kinda like a rain forest.....
Most remains a mystery. :-)
I was thinking of 2 of your loaves that would work well if you wanted to experiment more on this topic. First being your Rustic Sourdough that uses ice cold water and refrigeration followed by more cold water and then room temp. bulk fermentation the following day using store bough flours and the desem loaf that you just baked using Phil's formula that used all whole wheat flour and cooler temps as well tho' not ice cold. Would hopefully demonstrate the effect of cold on fresh milled grains (should, according to what I have read, produce a mild flavor loaf) and the cold on store bought flour. (should produce a more sour loaf...)
All conjecture until experimented with ..... :-)
And then you could do nothing but keep baking the wonderful breads you bake and allow yourself to marvel at the wonder and mystery of this process which is why, I think, that I am drawn to using wild yeast when I bake.
End of rambling.....I will close here and remind you that I know relatively little due to the fact that I only started baking with sd about a year ago......I am still a learner and what I learn almost daily is that I really don't know much at all when it comes right down to it. I do know I love to bake though :-)
Take Care,
Janet
What great comments!
Thank you Janet for all the science.
David, I think in one post you mentioned baking @ SFBI with different starters to compare results?
Could you tell us more about that, please?
ML
Hi, ML.
This is described in my blog. See:
SFBI Artisan I workshop: Day 1
SFBI Artisan I workshop: Day 2
SFBI Artisan I workshop: Day 3
SFBI Artisan I workshop: Day 4
SFBI Artisan I workshop: Day 5
Thanks David,
By the way, I just ran across a Desem starter on Amazon. Who knew?
Sorry guess I should have addressed this question to David.
I noticed you held back your starter in your autolyse time. I have always just held back the salt. What benefit do you see from holding back the starter during the autolyse?
My thoughts would be that it would be a great time for the starter to have free range during this time before being inhibited by the salt.
What are your thoughts on this?
David,
I'm giving this a bump so that you can see my question about holding the starter back in the autolyse.
Thanks, Faith
Hi, Faith.
I apologize for the delay in responding to your question, but the answer is a bit complicated, and I wanted to do it justice.
The autolyse technique was invented by Prof. Raymond Calvel. His principal goal was to allow for a shorter mix time for baguettes, since the "intensive" mixing which prevailed at the time (1950's) oxidized the caretinoid pigments in the flour and resulted in poor bread flavor.
How does autolyse work? Gluten is formed when two component proteins in the flour combine in the presense of water. In the first few minutes after water is introduced, the long gluten molecules form and links between gluten strands begin to develop. Calvel delayed introducing salt, yeast and pre-fermented dough, such as pâte fermenté or firm levain, because it is not appropriate to begin fermentation at this stage (thus leaving out the yeast). Salt and acid both tighten the gluten strands (in different ways) and inhibit their initial development. Later, these two dough components strengthen the dough, which is good, but they interfere with the initial gluten strand cross-linking which is a goal of the autolyse.
Liquid levain and poolish are special cases. Both contain a significant portion of the total water in the final dough and a low enough content of yeast and acid to have lesser effects on the autolyse. Therefore, they are generally mixed with the flour and water for the autolyse. Only the salt is withheld.
I hope this answers your question.
David
I can see where it could become a bit complicated. That is the first time that I have seen the yeast held back. You explained it very well. I will say that I do and don't completely understand. Something that I need to work out in my own head. I understand the salt.
I guess my stumbles are from knowing the slow going of a sourdough and how a relatively small amount would take time to become noticeably active when added to the final dough. I can understand that using a fresh or dry active yeast and a long autolyse could have a much larger impact. Another thought is I would think it would be more difficult effectively mix a pre-ferment dough into the autolysed dough thereby requiring more mixing time.
So by adding the yeast in the beginning of the autolyse... you are in way adding an extra stretch and fold, and also diminish the effectiveness of the yeast by introducing it into a less developed pre-dough?
Am I on the right track here?
Most interesting concept on this. In your experience have you been able to notice a difference the first time you held back the yeast?
I think I need to do a side by side comparison. I do appreciate your time and experience to help me gain more understanding of this.
Thanks Faith
"Autolyse" refers to a very specific procedure. By definition, it is not a complete dough. Originally, it did not include yeast, but Clavel favored use of a pâte fermenté. Other's adapted the procedure for use with poolish, which does contain a small amount of yeast. However, when making baguette sur poorlish and using an autolyse, the yeast you would added to the final dough is still added after the autolyse.
Doughs made with levain generally do have a slower fermentation than those with commercial yeast, as you say. But, that's a good thing for flavor development. I haven't found mixing a firm levain into the autolyse a particular challenge. When using a stand mixer, it generally takes 1 to 2 minutes on slow speed.
Adding commercial yeast during an autolyse would start fermentation sooner. I'm not sure how it is like "adding an extra stretch and fold." Adding levain, at least a firm levain, not only adds yeast but also acid. Acid strengthens the cross-links between gluten strands and between the folds of each strand.
Having said all this, some bakers don't use an autolyse at all. Others mix all the ingredients except the salt initially, and add the salt after the dough has partially fermented. You can make very good bread using all these techniques.
One other point: The problem for which autolyse was a partial solution proposed by Prof. Calvel was tasteless baguettes. So, changing procedures to enhance flavor was the main goal. However, he found that autolyse provided an additional benefit. Baguettes dough made using an autolyse was significantly more extensible. This is a particular advantage when you are shaping a long, thin loaf. While it is much less important when shaping boules, I happen to like shaping more extensible dough. I'm not saying it necessarily improves the final product. I just happen to like how it handles and that it relaxes much more quickly, resulting in a shorter rest between pre-shaping and shaping.
David
Thanks Dave, I'm good now.
Had some time to connect the dots and put things in my own form of understanding.
I have time tomorrow to do some baking so all the world will be good again.
Faith
I'm late to the party, David, but I just wanted to say that the loaves look wonderful. I'm also glad to hear that your wife approves of the rye loaf :)
Thanks for the compliments, hansjoakim!
Since then, I've also made a Jewish Sour Rye that Susan liked a lot. This weekend, I'm pushing my luck with Hamelman's Three-Stage 80% Sourdough Rye. We'll see if her taste for rye has evolved to that point.
David
Dave, thank you for the bread formula for the San Francisco Sourdough. I baked it this morning before 'the bird' went in the oven. It had great oven spring and lots of big holes (YAY!). It tastes sour but not overly so. I'm very happy with the results although the bread could use a bit better shaping and better slashing/scoring. But all in all I'm very pleased.
Here is a picture of the bread's crumb - nice and holey!
I am happy you enjoyed this bread. It looks deliious.
Happy Thanksgiving!
David
as usual David. We put two of our favorite breads of yours in our Thanksgiving stuffing - the Pugliesi Capriosso and the SJSD. We also used one of Andy's, one of Ying's and 2 of Phil's. It is a an International Fresh Lofian Kitchen Sink Stuffing.
Have a great Thanksgiving and the best to you and your extended family.
I am honored to have my breads co-stuffed with those of such illustreous bakers.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
David