Slight Variations on Two More Formulae from Hamelman's "Bread"

Well it's all going off isn't it?

Thanks for noticing this post Larry.   I thought it had been buried in and amongst what foolishpoolish has deemed to be ancient history.

The rye loaves are wonderfully moist, full of flavour and great for sandwiches.   It's actually a really good way to learn how to judge oven spring perfectly.   You might be able to spot the tiny little lip around the base of the loaf.   Rather than being over-proved, maybe I had just a little bit too much matter in the tin??

The miche; I'm just not into dealing with sloppy dough unless you want to make ciabatta.   Hamelman makes a point about over-hydration.   It is not the panacea, and I like a dough which is properly mixed too.   I know that could make me unpopular in some circles.   I hasten to add that tight dough is not a viable option and will always make poor bread.

Great to hear from you, and best wishes

Andy

Hi again!

First off, I think I should refer you back to our conversation about autolyse.

The soaker is what I call a "boil up".   If you add an equal weight of boiling water to dark rye flour and mix it, it will swell immediately and mix a very stiff paste.

A fantastic way to bind in more water.  I guess this also links to our discussion on bagels and gelatinisation.

As to flavour, this is a bit of a new departure for me in the "rye" context.   I have done "boil-ups", and "hot soakers" before, but not with a high % rye.   This was the original process at Village Bakery, but the boil-up had already been taken out of the process by the time I moved there in 1994.

Our rye sourdoughs were based on the premise of the dough being comprised 50% sour dough.   This is the way Andrew Whitley liked to calculate his recipes.   I prefer to use the pre-fermented flour as a base.   In effect there ends up being little difference between the 2....except that we used a wet rye sour [flour 100, water 167] and a ferment time of 18 hours.   We had 12 x 50 kg of sour on the go at any one time: can you imagine how active those rye sour ferments were??

Jeffrey Hamelman works on a much stiffer culture, and I followed his methods here.   This is very unusual for me; see my post on the Caraway Rye and the great discussions I had with Nico on this. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16079/rye-sour-fermentation-how-long and  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15577/pure-sourdough-rye-year-1939#comment-99318 and here http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15974/sour-dough-leaven-refreshment-and-ash-content    Goodness there is great discussion here with Shiao-Ping and ehanner too.   Anyway, the point is the wet rye sour we used ferments much quicker than the one JH uses, so the flavour in the finished bread is much stronger.   The soaker would be lost in that environment.

It's great here though...and benfits even more given the 25% strong white flour component.   Our Rossisky was 100% Rye...also in a tin

Best wishes

Andy

Hi Bea,

They certainly take some baking at 2kg that's for sure!   There is no sweetener in the formula, but there is a soaker, and that does bring great flavour to the bread.   It is slightly sweet to counter the sourness of the culture.   Above all it gelatinises the starch to improve water absorption.   78% is easily manageable, but that is high in my world!

I haven't checked your maths, but if you think dividing by 5 gives you the dough size you want, then that will work.   Best not let the dough get too cold if you go down to 700g; heat loss is big at that small size.

I'm used to working with 100% rye paste, so this with 75% rye and 25% strong white seemed quite easy to deal with.   It's plain; no spices or sugars.   All the flavour comes from techniques to do with manipulation of the flour  ie rye sour, and, rye soaker.   And a bit of salt.   That's it!

Best wishes

Andy