Do you autolyse if you have a spiral mixer?
Hi All,
I'm recently the proud owner of a new Salzburger MT12 and have been using it to add whole wheat grains to type85 to make my usual country style home loaves. Since I have a famag spiral mixer I do the all-in-one method and just toss it all in and let it mix until the gluten has very obviously developed.
Today I am getting ready to do a 100% whole wheat country loaf (50% hard red spring, 50% hard white spring) thats fresh milled and am not sure if the all-in-one method applies?
Historically when I've done packaged whole wheat flour by hand i've autolysed for hours, sometimes overnight to help with gluten development but with freshly milled flour + a spiral mixer do I need to do that to ensure I get a decent rise or would it be safe to just go "all in one" and let the mixer do its thing and just keep an eye on the dough temp?
I appreciate the insight!!
Jon
Keep doing what you've been doing and watch for changes is your best bet. Enjoy!
I have the Famag IM5S and mainly make 100% home milled whole wheat. I autolyse for about 20 to 30 minutes. I usually add the water and the flour ( and a pinch of Vit C ) then mix with a spatula, then cover the bowl. I find that if I do the autolyse mix with the machine at a low speed, during the autolyse, some of the flour bits get stuck to the spiral and the bar, not a huge deal, but I skip that by just mixing by hand.
I also have the IM5. I normally autolyse for 20m, then I add the levain. I like to rest for another 10mins (fermentolyse), then I mix in the salt on low speed, followed by a couple of bursts of high speed with bassinage added in the second burst.
There is a thought that autolyse degrades gluten, but I don't think it will be a great amount for 20-30 mins and it does reduce the mixing time required. Hwever for a very weak dough I would probably just do 5 - 10 mins.
Lance
Lance , do you use the machine to mix the flour and water for the autolyse ? If so, do you notice an issue with some bits sticking to the hook or breaker bar?
No, I never get that Barry. Water in the mixer, then I pour in the flour with the mixer running. Sometimes there are a few dry bits; if so I give it a poke down the bottom with a plastic spatula to break them up.
You will tend to have a lot bran than me, so maybe that is what is sticking? I guess you could try a quick sift with a kitchen sieve. Then add the coarse stuff into the mixer water and once it's mixed, add in the rest of the flour.
Lance, sorry, my question wasn't clear. During the 20 minutes of autolyse, anything that is sticking to the spiral or the bar gets dried on. So what I do is put the flour and water in the bowl while it is off the mixer and use a spatula to mix enough just to incorporate all the dry bits -( maybe 20 to 30 seconds ) then push that to one side of the bowl, dump in the starter and the salt to other sides so they aren't touching, then cover the bowl and wait the 20 to 30 min of autolyse. Then I put the bowl on the mixer, run at slow speed for a few minutes, then medium speed, and when it is done, the dough has formed a pumpkin, the bowl is mostly clean, and while I have to wipe off the hook and breaker, what is on there is still moist and comes off cleanly. If instead I put in the flour and water and use the mixer to mix them together, while waitng for the autolyse, bits of wet flour tend to dry on the hook and bar, so at the end when I go to clean it off, it is a bit harder - not a huge problem, but didn't know if you had the same issue.
I understand now Barry, but I have to say I don't have that problem - maybe because our kitchen is pretty cold most of the year, so less chance for the dough to dry on.
Lance
Yo, if you've already got some solid experience under your belt working with mixers and grains, then you should know that when using freshly milled flour, you can cut down the autolyse time. Since the grain was just ground up, it's got all the enzymes needed for gluten development. That means you don't have to autolyse the dough for hours or overnight like usual.
Actually, I think the main purpose of a short term autolyse is to hydrate the dough. Longer term, you will get enzymatic activity, using the existing enzymes in the flour - I don't think there is any creation of enzymes in autolysis, although freshly ground flour may have a higher enzyme content.
Heritage grains, at least in the UK, often have a high bran content - smaller grains, thicker bran, so will benefit from a short autolyse to get that bran hydrated.
Lance
That, and the rest period also lets the gluten start setting up, and that reduces the amount of kneading required later. Why knead for 10 - 15 minutes when you can mix for a few minutes, rest the dough, and knead for just a couple more after that?
TomP
Hi Lance,
I'm convinced that my regular 30 minute autolyze is more than just hydrating the flour. The dough definitely develops strength in that time without any mechanical action.
Gavin
Or is it simply that the effective hydration of the dough is causing easy formation of the gluten strands? Would the wheat enzymes work so quickly if they were indeed involved?
At the end of the day I guess it doesn't really matter if you are getting the effect you want. Of course the op was was asking about autolyse with a spiral mixer, but he has not bothered to rejoin the discussion.
Lance